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The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

the-sentinel-intelligence.com

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Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#41

Post by defrost »

fire_lake wrote: post #2

Ok, so which “elites” are holding real estate portfolios and creating these stories in the media bashing remote work? Who are they? I don’t think the world is so coordinated. Some people made a bad bet on real estate. Some other people want to write click bait pieces about lazy workers. Some other corporate leaders are scared that employees are goofing off outside the office (because productivity can’t be measured fo…

> I don’t think the world is so coordinated.

The "think tanks" that are pre staffed and fully capable of churning out and placing 3x major long form articles per week that are pro or con {Subject X} (and an additional few that fence sit and are "just asking questions") already exist and have been about since at least Nine out of Ten Doctors Recommend Smoking.

You know, 5+ decades ago.

The "elites" that are losing money in {Domain X} simply have to question their circle, get a line on a half decent agency or three and hire them to pitch for the thought changes that will move money back towards {X}.

Job done.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#42

Post by gleenn »

justsomehnguy wrote: post #22

> It's about debt on zombie office towers. No. It's about total loss of the control of the one of the most effective productivity measurements those 'elites' ever had: BiC/h. Zombie towers too, but the middle management don't (and won't ever) get any profit from the sqaure meters, so they eagerly support their top-level executives specifically because they no longer can imitate the vigorous activity of managing peopl…

What's the "/h"?

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#43

Post by ustad »

fire_lake wrote: post #12
okamiueru wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is far fetched tho. If you have a couple of millions to spare, you can easily set up a little think tank on how to effect certain changes. If you're willing to throw money at something, it requires minimal effort to coordinate. Your question as to who these people are, is still valid. So my objection is only to the extent that it being unknown doesn't mean it isn't likely.

It would be a fantastic piece of investigative journalism if someone could link these stories to real estate investors somehow.

That would be neat but its very difficult to get someone to reveal who is paying for it behind the scenes. For example, this is the “survey” referenced in the article :

https://www.surveymonkey.com/curiosity/surveymonkey-research...

Now, who is “Sam Gutierrez” and how is he benefitting? Did he get compensated for it? Is he doing a public service? Is he licking ass? Do we care?

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#44

Post by jaggederest »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #37
fire_lake wrote: post #2

Ok, so which “elites” are holding real estate portfolios and creating these stories in the media bashing remote work? Who are they? I don’t think the world is so coordinated. Some people made a bad bet on real estate. Some other people want to write click bait pieces about lazy workers. Some other corporate leaders are scared that employees are goofing off outside the office (because productivity can’t be measured fo…

Exactly, these articles always just make me face palm because the authors never manage a cogent argument about who is making the actual RTO decisions and who cares about commercial real estate values. It's much easier just to chalk it up to the nebulous and scary "elites" and then the authors don't have to do any actual research. For one, look at the expenses of some of the large tech companies that often make the fr…

If you're a C-level at a Fortune 50 company, some massive percentage of your personal assets, if they're invested in the stock market or private equity, are in commercial real estate.

There's no mystery here. People with assets want those assets to remain valuable, and act directly to reinforce it. This is why we don't let athletes bet on their own games.

> Point being, no sane CEO would demand RTO to "prop up commercial real estate" if they thought it would be a net negative for their actual business long term, precisely because their concerns about real estate values are so far down on their list of priorities.

What if they thought it didn't make any difference, or was mildly net positive to the short term value of their shares? Like, say, 2% increased value through voluntary attrition over the next 2 years, followed by 10% reduced value? And it propped up their portfolios? Is that really so far fetched? We see companies making a lot more questionable decisions in pursuit of quarterly numbers.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#45

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

lrem wrote: post #8
fire_lake wrote: post #2

Ok, so which “elites” are holding real estate portfolios and creating these stories in the media bashing remote work? Who are they? I don’t think the world is so coordinated. Some people made a bad bet on real estate. Some other people want to write click bait pieces about lazy workers. Some other corporate leaders are scared that employees are goofing off outside the office (because productivity can’t be measured fo…

> I don’t think the world is so coordinated. I suggest you read or watch something about McKinsey.

Oh please. The fact that McKinsey exists and has done plenty of shady shit doesn't mean they coordinate stuff like this.

"People who believe in conspiracy theories have never been project managers."

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#46

Post by _zoltan_ »

rblatz wrote: post #40
klodolph wrote: post #10

I’ve heard this argument before and I don’t buy it. By that, I mean it may be true (that people want to prop up real estate prices), but I don’t think that this is enough of an explanation. If it were just about real estate, then Amazon would not be calling for 5 days a week return-to-office. I don’t think real estate interests are powerful enough to push Amazon around and I don’t think they’re entrenched enough in A…

I’ve long suspected it’s a PR campaign/propaganda and talking points aimed directly at the c suite class. A lot of people with a lot of money stand to lose a lot. Banks, investors, retirement funds… Start circulating studies showing people working multiple remote jobs at once, steer thinking around company culture, normalize it through repetition, send out talking points. Eventually dominos will start failing.

If it would be bad for people's pension funds and such, shouldn't it be everyone's interest to actually keep showing up to prop up those real estate values?

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#47

Post by Saline9515 »

I didn't think of Jeff Bezos as a benevolent community member of "the elites", doing everything he can, for free, to save the real estate portfolio of his unlucky landlord friends.

The truth is that after the initial movement toward remote work, we are starting to see the secondary effects.

For instance, starting as a junior in a remote job can be really daunting, and you're sure to never make any personal connection with anyone. Being stonewalled by a non-cooperative senior coworker in a slack chat while you start your job is a very stressful experience, I can tell you.

Remote also allows some slack if you don't enforce a very tight and intrusive management. See the countless stories about people holding two jobs at the same time.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#48

Post by dvt »

jaggederest wrote: post #23
fire_lake wrote: post #2

Ok, so which “elites” are holding real estate portfolios and creating these stories in the media bashing remote work? Who are they? I don’t think the world is so coordinated. Some people made a bad bet on real estate. Some other people want to write click bait pieces about lazy workers. Some other corporate leaders are scared that employees are goofing off outside the office (because productivity can’t be measured fo…

It's all the people you'd expect, some purpose-built REITs, big investment firms and private equity, Blackrock, Blackstone and other wealth management, the larger investment banks and the commercial mortgage paper owners are also directly invested (double dipping just like we saw in 2008, where banks would buy mortgages and also leverage those mortgages with derivatives) Many of them are some of the companies that wa…

It's so crazy to me how 2008 was barely a decade-and-a-half ago, and people already forgot how much of a coordinated, organized, and pseudo-fraudulent shitshow the CDO merry-go-round was. Loans were given out, rating agencies were being bought, and everyone was skimming off the top until the music stopped. Are we really pretending it can't happen again?

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#49

Post by kitsune_ »

klodolph wrote: post #10

I’ve heard this argument before and I don’t buy it. By that, I mean it may be true (that people want to prop up real estate prices), but I don’t think that this is enough of an explanation. If it were just about real estate, then Amazon would not be calling for 5 days a week return-to-office. I don’t think real estate interests are powerful enough to push Amazon around and I don’t think they’re entrenched enough in A…

My theory, which is kind of informed by what I saw it play out in my company: The reason is a psychological one. Most leaders derive their power from in-person interactions. Remote and video calls severely impact that. Those leaders also love having an audience that needs to listen to them whenever they are in the room and the lack of that kind of feedback and adulation shellshocked a lot of them.

Re: The war on remote work has nothing to do with productivity

#50

Post by klodolph »

neuroelectron wrote: post #39
klodolph wrote: post #10

I’ve heard this argument before and I don’t buy it. By that, I mean it may be true (that people want to prop up real estate prices), but I don’t think that this is enough of an explanation. If it were just about real estate, then Amazon would not be calling for 5 days a week return-to-office. I don’t think real estate interests are powerful enough to push Amazon around and I don’t think they’re entrenched enough in A…

Amazon wants retention? That seems very strange and counter-intuitive. When did this happen?

I wrote that Amazon wants “attrition”, which means the opposite.
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