Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal • Hacker News Board

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#41

Post by brookst » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #7

lobochrome wrote: post #4

Fascinating. How will we live ok back in, say five years, at this very funny period from, 2018ish to 2022ish when our echo chamber made us believe ESG was going to save the world. How far we’ve come. Is it all due to the prospect of finally seeing a feasible road to AGI?!

ESG ended up being a scam. Lots of these things are nothing but cover to make money off of people’s concern for the enviro. All you need to look at is the carbon footprint of people who clamor and demonstrate for green policies. Including idiots gluing themselves to roadways —all the idle traffic they create and the manpower necessary to remove them and repair the damage. It’s a sucker’s game.

Saying ESG is entirely a scam because some ESG backers travel in airplanes is like saying climate change is a hoax because it was colder than usual in Peoria today.

ESG is a huge thing. Some of it is greenwashing, some is outright scam, some is legitimate pressure to make better environmental decisions.

But insisting that ESG proponents can’t make suboptimal individual choices is silly.

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#42

Post by weberer » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:34 PM UTC

rgmerk wrote: post #16

Hmmm. 50 years old and out of action for half a decade. That’s going to require a lot of work to persuade the NRC it’s safe to operate. Given how difficult it’s proven to build new nuclear around the world, what are the odds of this recommissioning being on time and budget?

They're not restarting reactor 2. They're starting the one that shut down in 2019.

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#43

Post by Y-bar » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:35 PM UTC

alright2565 wrote: post #35

fergonco wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are nimby crowds insane? Accidents may happen. And did happen in the past in that same place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

Coal plants have killed a minimum of 500k people over the past 20 years[1]. It's not an accident in that case, it's known and planned for (or at least easily predicted enough that it should have been). But when a few hundred people, or really just 0 people[2] die in one place at one time, people lose their minds. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/23/coal-pow... [2]: An inter-agency analysis conclu…

I’m not the person you responded to, but have an honest question here since we are specifically talking about NIMBYism: How much less of NIMBY is there against coal power plants? For example are there examples of people rejecting NPP in their vicinity while accepting CPP?

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#44

Post by nikau » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

mikeortman wrote: post #10

I feel like we are living in an episode of the Simpsons at this point

except the electron app running the powerplant cant respond fast enough to the nodding duck

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#45

Post by nancybelowzero » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #8

Wow. AI has already accomplished more positive in a few years of big commercial stuff (admittedly as a side effect) than cryptocurrency has since, say 2009. :(

Crypto created a trillion dollars out of thin air (well, slightly thicker air from more CO2). AI is poised to do the same, but also has already polluted the entire internet with worthless slop.

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#46

Post by Nullabillity » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

unglaublich wrote: post #28

fergonco wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are nimby crowds insane? Accidents may happen. And did happen in the past in that same place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

Because the alternative, fossil fuel generation, is much, much more polluting and deadly.

Another alternative would be to not build the datacenter...

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#47

Post by elil17 » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:36 PM UTC

fergonco wrote: post #19

1970-01-01 wrote: post #14

More nuclear is a good thing. FAANG nuclear is even better, because they will be be ready and equipped to push back the insane NIMBY crowd(s) and also don't need to be worried about getting reelected.

How are nimby crowds insane? Accidents may happen. And did happen in the past in that same place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

It's insane because killing people is the modus operandi of fossil fuel power - and I'm not even talking about climate change. People often die on oil fields and in mines, toxic waste from coal plants leaches into our water supply, and ash enters our air and causes asthma and heart problems. Coal alone has killed about 460,000 Americans in the 21st century: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/23/coal-pow...

Nuclear power plants, in contrast, very rarely have issues: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/death-rates-from-energy-p...

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#48

Post by sesm » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:37 PM UTC

jameshart wrote: post #27

> restart one of the units at the noted Three Mile Island nuclear plant in Pennsylvania Ah yes, the ‘noted’ Three Mile Island. I wonder why this particular plant enjoys a degree of fame? The name certainly is familiar… Seems like a rebranding might have made sense - like the UK switched Sellafield to Winscale.

Just rebrand it to Five Kilometer Island.

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#49

Post by elil17 » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:38 PM UTC

alright2565 wrote: post #35

fergonco wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How are nimby crowds insane? Accidents may happen. And did happen in the past in that same place: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Mile_Island_accident

Coal plants have killed a minimum of 500k people over the past 20 years[1]. It's not an accident in that case, it's known and planned for (or at least easily predicted enough that it should have been). But when a few hundred people, or really just 0 people[2] die in one place at one time, people lose their minds. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/nov/23/coal-pow... [2]: An inter-agency analysis conclu…

That's just 500k Americans - far more people have been killed globally.

Re: Three Mile Island nuclear plant restart in Microsoft AI power deal

#50

Post by rdl » Fri, Sep 20, 2024, 1:38 PM UTC

rgmerk wrote: post #16

Hmmm. 50 years old and out of action for half a decade. That’s going to require a lot of work to persuade the NRC it’s safe to operate. Given how difficult it’s proven to build new nuclear around the world, what are the odds of this recommissioning being on time and budget?

If the recommissioning requires 20% of the work of new-build (in time and money), I'd rather have the "normal" 50-100% overrun in costs and time happen on recommissioning vs new-build.

The delay is usually heavily on the permitting/legal challenges/etc. stage, not actual concrete-pouring and equipment installation, so an already-once-permitted site will probably do better relatively, too.

Extra reactors at exising operating sites would make even more sense, though. Putting 2-4 extra AP-1000 at ~1GW/ea at each of the 54 facilities operating today would be huge and minimal incremental risk, and if there were a shortcut one time permitting process for it...