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House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

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Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#41

Post by cogman10 »

patrakov wrote: post #39
misswaterfairy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They might not be listening to AM radio all the time, but it's often used as an emergency broadcast frequency in Australia, and not for apocalyptic reasons though it could be. AM travels a lot further than FM, all other things being equal, and the local frequency is signposted on road signs around the country. The big three typical emergency broadcasts down under include wildfire (which have, and do kill motorists ca…

I don't buy this "narrowcast mediums like mobile phones" argument. Please watch any video of any Debconf 24 session. You'll hear how the mobile phones of all participants at the same time start reading emergency alerts (about the heat waves) aloud. So the mobile phone network was, in fact, designed with a broadcast use case in mind, and this gets regularly tested and does not overload the network. I do agree that AM…

> I do agree that AM radio receivers are cheap to build and not a burden to require.

The actual burden of AM isn't the hardware it takes up, but rather the frequencies it hogs. Keeping AM indefinitely alive means we are reserving prime low frequency bandwidth for a dated tech for no real good reason.

Heck, I'd even agree that keeping the AM bandwidth dedicated to audio broadcasts is a desirable thing. However, I'd argue that it should be converted to a modern broadcasting format that can handle more than sermons and talk radio. Change it into a QAM digital broadcast with a fair bit of error correction and a modern codec and you suddenly can stuff a lot more stations into the same bandwidth, with a long range, and a crystal clear output.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#42

Post by FireBeyond »

> Conservatives are also worried about losing a lucrative platform for right-wing news and media.

You are guaranteed the right to free speech. You are not guaranteed that other people are obligated to carry that speech for you, at a cost to them.

Cry me a fucking river. (The same would equally apply to left-wing media, for perfect clarity).

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#43

Post by FireBeyond »

7e wrote: post #24
cogman10 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This doesn't convince me. For starters, FM broadcasting is hardly more complex than AM broadcasting and any vehicle built in the last 50 years with an AM radio also has an FM radio. I can't imagine a scenario where FM broadcasting is somehow unavailable, but AM is. But further, if AM is the last line of communication, we are in a VERY bad situation indeed, like apocalyptic. One in which I doubt any survivors are list…

AM transmissions have a far greater range than FM transmissions, up to thousands of miles. This matters in a common emergency scenario, a nuclear bomb blast (or all out nuclear war), when EMPs will take out most electronics. Cars are Faraday cages and their electronics will likely survive an EMP. In this case, an AM radio in a car is likely the last surviving broadcast medium people will have access to.

In the event of a nuclear bomb blast or nuclear war, assuming that the plan isn't out and out annihilation, even then, communications infrastructure is going to be a strategic target.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#44

Post by Vecr »

FireBeyond wrote: post #42

> Conservatives are also worried about losing a lucrative platform for right-wing news and media. You are guaranteed the right to free speech. You are not guaranteed that other people are obligated to carry that speech for you, at a cost to them. Cry me a fucking river. (The same would equally apply to left-wing media, for perfect clarity).

Congress is really just addressing a market failure, if you want to put it like that. It's not just that the car does not come with an AM radio, the car's electronics are jamming AM reception inside the car, even if you try to buy your own.

It's "okay" for the government to do this because they're already making entry into the mass-produced car market very hard.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#45

Post by zamadatix »

nis0s wrote: post #10

I am unconvinced that requiring AM radio in new cars is just “fan service” or outdated. Emergency scenarios often require a PSA (public service announcement), and it’s easy enough to envision a scenario where communications degrade in succession, such that you can get a PSA on how to use AM transmissions in case other communications go down. So if other networks are degraded, then at least people have AM to fall back…

I've never found the idea of an emergency radio itself as unconvincing but I've remained relatively unconvinced requiring them to be built into cars was a particularly reliable, useful, or efficient way to go about ensuring access to such radios in disaster scenarios. It seems a lot more like a "well that's the only place I know of that still has an AM radio today so it should stay that way!" regulation than a "AM radio access" regulation.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#46

Post by wwweston »

tcmart14 wrote: post #20

Due to safety concerns and the ability to get the message out, every home, building, bridge, mountain top, or structure must maintain a a pile of logs on top and a flame at the ready in the event of a national emergency so that way word or warning may be spread like beacons of Gondor.

Not sure I see a problem with that, really. Emergency response contributions are about as compelling a reason for social obligations as is possible, not everyone will benefit from them but anyone could need them. And since property exists and is maintained as a social construction, it makes sense it might come with some social obligations. About the only thing to quibble with is whether burning logs specifically fit a good set of requirements for relay comms, which might be the point of your comment beyond amusement, and I suppose it accomplishes both, though it starts to wear thin at the point where if you make a list of desirable features, AM radio starts to look pretty good.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#47

Post by 7e »

FireBeyond wrote: post #43
7e wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AM transmissions have a far greater range than FM transmissions, up to thousands of miles. This matters in a common emergency scenario, a nuclear bomb blast (or all out nuclear war), when EMPs will take out most electronics. Cars are Faraday cages and their electronics will likely survive an EMP. In this case, an AM radio in a car is likely the last surviving broadcast medium people will have access to.

In the event of a nuclear bomb blast or nuclear war, assuming that the plan isn't out and out annihilation, even then, communications infrastructure is going to be a strategic target.

FEMA maintains about 80 AM transmitters in Faraday cages, with backup generators, across the country. Amateur HAMs maintain a lot more, though of lower power.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#48

Post by 7e »

howard941 wrote: post #27
7e wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AM transmissions have a far greater range than FM transmissions, up to thousands of miles. This matters in a common emergency scenario, a nuclear bomb blast (or all out nuclear war), when EMPs will take out most electronics. Cars are Faraday cages and their electronics will likely survive an EMP. In this case, an AM radio in a car is likely the last surviving broadcast medium people will have access to.

This only works if the AM antenna is protected, inside the Faraday cage, next to the radio. Otherwise you're left with a fried front end.

A fair point, but there's no need to have the antenna connected unless the radio is actively on. It could be on a relay. Many radios would be off during the EMP.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#49

Post by Vecr »

7e wrote: post #48
howard941 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This only works if the AM antenna is protected, inside the Faraday cage, next to the radio. Otherwise you're left with a fried front end.

A fair point, but there's no need to have the antenna connected unless the radio is actively on. It could be on a relay. Many radios would be off during the EMP.

Yeah, that's a better idea. Use a signal relay rated for the surge, and just have it off usually.

Re: House committee approves bill requiring new cars to have AM radio

#50

Post by tcmart14 »

wwweston wrote: post #46
tcmart14 wrote: post #20

Due to safety concerns and the ability to get the message out, every home, building, bridge, mountain top, or structure must maintain a a pile of logs on top and a flame at the ready in the event of a national emergency so that way word or warning may be spread like beacons of Gondor.

Not sure I see a problem with that, really. Emergency response contributions are about as compelling a reason for social obligations as is possible, not everyone will benefit from them but anyone could need them. And since property exists and is maintained as a social construction, it makes sense it might come with some social obligations. About the only thing to quibble with is whether burning logs specifically fit…

Mostly it was for amusement, haha.

I don't disagree with AM radio being a way. I do disagree with saying cars are required to have it though. Instead, we should focus more on advocating people to have a cheap battery operated/crank radio, which are fairly cheap, can be gotten for 10 bucks off amazon[1].

If your relying on AM radio for emergency broadcasts, a car radio is pretty piss poor unless your on a long drive, but most people probably will never head it because they are listening to podcasts, streaming music from their phones, etc.

To reiterate, I am fine with AM being used for emergency broadcasting, I just think requiring cars to have AM radios is silly. Everyone should have in their home and/or in a road side emergency packs with their tire jack, a cheap battery operated AM/FM radio.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/J-166-Transistor-Excellent-Reception-...

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