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Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

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Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#41

This is particularly stupid because apparently the site only had links to copyright infringement. This is just hollywood abusing their position to fight the advancement of tech and society simply because it disagrees with their business. I do not believe there is anything inherently unethical about copyright infringement in pirating movies or tv shows. It's only technically illegal (and unethical in the sense that it…

> It's unethical to break the law (assuming the law was instated ethically), which, in theory, is a set of rules everyone agrees to play by. However pirating movies and tv shows is not inherently unethical as it is just an arbitrary law we put in place to control for an outcome. I can't following your reasoning on this. Is your point that copyright laws have been instated unethically? Why does it matter that they are…

> I can't following your reasoning on this. Is your point that copyright laws have been instated unethically?

No. My point is that copyright infringement is only wrong in the eyes of the law, and not wrong inherently. Since copyright infringement isn't inherently wrong, the law can be redefined to adjust to changing realities.

> Seriously? So, if people choose to consume someone's work, yet avoid paying for it, then it's the content creators fault?

It's no one's "fault" as there's nothing wrong with not having a movie/tv industry. Human attention and efforts would simply shift and focus on something else that may or may not be better than movies/tv. I could be on the other side of the universe, and having received a stray signal of copyrighted work and consumed it, it would not affect the original content creator one bit.

Again, the content creator simply shouldn't do it if it doesn't pay. Who told them to do whatever it was that they were doing in the first place? If there is no consumer compensation then why do it? Either find a way to get people to compensate you, or do something else.

Movies and tv, while a critical part of current American culture, isn't a necessity of life and is actually a relatively recent development. People who make movies/tv shows aren't entitled to their jobs and their way of making money just like how I'm not entitled to be able to make money by leaving freshly squeezed lemonade outside with a sign that says "pay for it pleeze" while I sit on my lazy ass in the living room watching tv. It's my fault for not figuring out a better way of monetizing my lemonade (if people steal it) even if it is technically illegal to steal that lemonade. Who says creative content has to be protected. The industry only came to being because it was technologically easy to protect copyright but that's clearly not the case anymore. The sad state of affairs now is for the industry to find a cheap way to protect their revenues, or abandon it. It's reality and there's nothing inherently wrong with not being able to monetize content by selling licenses to view it. There are many ways to monetize these things and copyright just happened to be the most convenient way for decades.

It would be illogical, perhaps unethical even, for me to want more of that content while not supporting it in any way. However there's a difference between paying simply because I consumed something and paying because I want more of something. If I consume something and do not wish any more content to be produced of that nature, then I should have the right to not support the content creator, as whether or not I pay for the content will have no repercussions on the content creator except as to enable him to continue producing. They are not entitled to take my money automatically just because of "consumption" unless it is defined by law (which I have explained can and should be changed). Not paying for content is the public's way of saying that they do not support content creators. Therefore content creators should just stop and do something else.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#42
post #6

This is shocking and as a UK citizen angers me greatly, however I have to say this guy doesn't seem too smart. Firstly, building a website (presumably with the domain registered under his name) like this in the current legal climate is basically asking for trouble. Especially hosting it in Sweden (where the TBP was). Secondly , in the interview he asked the Police if he should get a solicitor, and decided not to get…

Because he was a scared kid who wanted this to go away, and the police told him it would if he just answer their questions and not wait the "2 hours" for the lawyer. He made a mistake. He should not be extradited and imprisoned in a foreign country for a decade for posting links on the internet.

> He made a mistake. He should not be extradited and imprisoned in a foreign country for a decade for posting links on the internet.

He knew what he was doing. He is alleged to have made ~£150,000 in advertising revenue from the site.

He had his TVShack.net domain seized by ICE in June 2010. Any kid simply making a mistake would have given up at that point.

Instead, within a matter of days he set the site up again on a new TVShack.cc domain, adding a picture of NWA and the statement "F* the police" to the top of the site.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#43
post #38
post #22

From the article it seems that this guy ran a search engine which might or might nor be illegal in the United States. However, he is British, most of the visitors are British and the servers are not in the United States, yet the US wants him extradited and tried in an American court. This of course begs the question: If an American is running a site hosted in America with mostly American visitors how would the US rea…

> From the article it seems that this guy ran a search engine which might or might nor be illegal in the United States. However, he is British, most of the visitors are British and the servers are not in the United States, yet the US wants him extradited and tried in an American court. The site was not a search engine. It may have had a search function, but the links were added manually by contributors (who O'Dwyer s…

> A UK judge has also ruled the allegations, if true, would also constitute an offence under UK law

Then he should be tried in the UK.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#44
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the article it seems that this guy ran a search engine which might or might nor be illegal in the United States. However, he is British, most of the visitors are British and the servers are not in the United States, yet the US wants him extradited and tried in an American court. The site was not a search engine. It may have had a search function, but the links were added manually by contributors (who O'Dwyer s…

> A UK judge has also ruled the allegations, if true, would also constitute an offence under UK law Then he should be tried in the UK.

> Then he should be tried in the UK.

As it stands, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK have shown no interest in prosecuting O'Dwyer, but US authorities have.

Perhaps O'Dwyer should be begging the CPS to prosecute him...

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#45
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From the article it seems that this guy ran a search engine which might or might nor be illegal in the United States. However, he is British, most of the visitors are British and the servers are not in the United States, yet the US wants him extradited and tried in an American court. The site was not a search engine. It may have had a search function, but the links were added manually by contributors (who O'Dwyer s…

> A UK judge has also ruled the allegations, if true, would also constitute an offence under UK law Then he should be tried in the UK.

Which is the approach the French, Germans, Russians, Austrians, Chinese, Japanese etc. take.

[See link below]

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#46
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A UK judge has also ruled the allegations, if true, would also constitute an offence under UK law Then he should be tried in the UK.

> Then he should be tried in the UK. As it stands, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK have shown no interest in prosecuting O'Dwyer, but US authorities have. Perhaps O'Dwyer should be begging the CPS to prosecute him...

The CPS has the discretion to prosecute a case if they deem it within the public interest, so how is this case not now within the public interest? Even if it is only to halt the extradition process.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#47
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A UK judge has also ruled the allegations, if true, would also constitute an offence under UK law Then he should be tried in the UK.

> Then he should be tried in the UK. As it stands, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK have shown no interest in prosecuting O'Dwyer, but US authorities have. Perhaps O'Dwyer should be begging the CPS to prosecute him...

so if an American did something that was illegal in Pakistan and the US had no interest in prosecuting you'd find it natural that an American citizen should be extradited to Pakistan and prosecuted there?

That's basically your argument.

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#48
post #47
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then he should be tried in the UK. As it stands, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in the UK have shown no interest in prosecuting O'Dwyer, but US authorities have. Perhaps O'Dwyer should be begging the CPS to prosecute him...

so if an American did something that was illegal in Pakistan and the US had no interest in prosecuting you'd find it natural that an American citizen should be extradited to Pakistan and prosecuted there? That's basically your argument.

You missed the GP post (which was also his). He said:

"At this point it's more a case of challenging [...] the absurdity of extraditing a young man to be tried in a foreign court under a foreign jurisdiction for such an offence."

Discussing the law and its implications as it stands should not be taken for implicit support or approval, but it seems to be far too often around here.

Don't shoot the messenger.

Edit: I took out the obtuse bit, since mixmax said he didn't see it. (I can't reply to him yet).

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#49
post #37

A not-so entirely tangential thought: Would Jimmy Wales have taken up this cause if Richard O'Dwyer wasn't a put-together specimen? You know if he was a socially-awkward, not-sure-of-himself, social-grace-lacking and all around clumsy-looking hacker. If the answer to this was manifestly in the affirmative, the question wouldn't be begging to be asked. This is a no-lose proposition for Jimmy. Whether the guy is actual…

These accusations in the form of hypothesis are disgusting. Do you have any evidence to believe Wales decided to help based on the guy's "social grace"?

Re: Wikipedia founder steps in to help UK hacker

#50
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so if an American did something that was illegal in Pakistan and the US had no interest in prosecuting you'd find it natural that an American citizen should be extradited to Pakistan and prosecuted there? That's basically your argument.

You missed the GP post (which was also his). He said: "At this point it's more a case of challenging [...] the absurdity of extraditing a young man to be tried in a foreign court under a foreign jurisdiction for such an offence." Discussing the law and its implications as it stands should not be taken for implicit support or approval, but it seems to be far too often around here. Don't shoot the messenger. Edit: I to…

maybe you're right - I didn't catch that.

Apologies to aes256 if I misread his comment.

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