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Who Owns Nebula?

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Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#41

Post by chrisoverzero »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

Real Engineering did a video titled "How Nebula Works" [1]. It details the technical problems. But seemingly deliberately dodges the legal and financial questions I clicked on that video to answer. I love Nebula. But it's obvious that there is a shady component to their structure that prevents transparency that senior leadership knows about and knowingly obfuscates. I'm not arguing for a creator-owned co-operative; t…

You clicked on a video from Real Engineering titled “How Nebula Works” hoping to get answers to legal and financial questions? I think videos with titles like “How Internal Combustion Engines Work” would also deliberately dodge legal and financial questions. Because they’re not what the video is about.

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#42

Post by Tarq0n »

ehhthing wrote: post #9

I think the last few paragraphs go off the rails. If creators didn't own (at least in some way) some controlling stake in Nebula, why would they publicly say that they do? Moreover, why would creators join Nebula if the terms were not beneficial to them in the first place? I find it funny that the author writes > It’s equally possible, however, that the system was set up in order to keep any meaningful power away fro…

The creators are desperate for a hedge against Youtube, which unilaterally controls their compensation and can deplatform them at any time.

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#43

Post by dmazin »

ehhthing wrote: post #9

I think the last few paragraphs go off the rails. If creators didn't own (at least in some way) some controlling stake in Nebula, why would they publicly say that they do? Moreover, why would creators join Nebula if the terms were not beneficial to them in the first place? I find it funny that the author writes > It’s equally possible, however, that the system was set up in order to keep any meaningful power away fro…

I agree – the investigation is thorough, but I think the conclusions are a little jumpy.

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#44

Post by dmazin »

gautampk wrote: post #6
prithvi24 wrote: post #4

Honestly, I feel like the criticism is missing some key points. Sam and the other founders are creators who've put a ton of work and resources into Nebula. They've made awesome original content like Jetlag and have invested heavily to support other creators on the platform. Nebula gives budgets for creators to produce their own shows, and they get a share of the revenue from subscribers they bring in—I wouldn't be su…

It /is/ misleading to say or imply that it is a co-op, though. It isn’t. It may be a progressive company which provides very favourable terms to creators, but it isn’t a co-op.

Oh, good comment.

After reading the article, I walked away with "well, they were vague about the terms, but the real terms sound fine to me."

But your comment changed my mind somewhat: it definitely isn't a co-op, and the "creator owned" language is misleading.

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#45

Post by astura »

TL;DR:

1) a group of content creators created a company

2) that company runs a streaming platform where they also allow outside content creators to use with (at least) a profit sharing agreement that includes ongoing profit as well as profit from the a sale of the company, should they sell it.

3) that platform also took in a single minority investor at some point

4) some rando on Medium is getting wrapped around the axle because they think the outside creators are calling this "ownership."

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#46

Post by staunton »

blagie wrote: post #36

This is approximately what I figured. Whenever I do deeper due diligence, this sort of scam comes up. Literally "whenever." For the record, Nebula is primarily owned and operated by creators. Those creators are: * Dave Wiskus * Brian McManus (Real Engineering) * Alex (LowSpecGamer) * Devin Stone (Legal Eagle) * Thomas Frank * Sam Denby (Wendover Productions) The other creators are getting scammed. This is not an unco…

I don't understand what the scam is.

The structure is opaque which indicates there might be some scam but how would one know what it is?

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#47

Post by yaur »

astura wrote: post #45

TL;DR: 1) a group of content creators created a company 2) that company runs a streaming platform where they also allow outside content creators to use with (at least) a profit sharing agreement that includes ongoing profit as well as profit from the a sale of the company, should they sell it. 3) that platform also took in a single minority investor at some point 4) some rando on Medium is getting wrapped around the…

One has to wonder if the creators got 50% of the sale to curiosity stream.

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#48

Post by jszymborski »

I'm cancelling my subscription.

I was always suspicious of the "50:50 SB/Ceator" deal. The real way to do something like this imho is via a cooperative, with investors like CuriosityStream and SB providing capital loans.

That said, the "ownership" claim is apparently provably false and I've been lied to. The company has operated dishonestly, and frankly the biggest reason I had a subscription was because of what I thought was an equitable ownership structure for creators.

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#49

Post by jszymborski »

sitharus wrote: post #17
danpalmer wrote: post #2

Interesting analysis! From the facts in this post, I'd reach the following speculation: the creators have a contract that entitles them to vote on certain types of company action, a share of 50% of the revenue, and potentially representation of their votes in the form of one or two of the existing board seats. Essentially there being some company bylaws in place to enact that "ownership" mechanism. This would match w…

It's definitely an interesting solution to a very similar problem I was looking at a few years ago - how to take on external investment in a co-operative company. I'm not in the US, so I can't comment on the options for Nebula, but where I live coops are a specific type of legal company which would encompass what Nebula want - a company where profit is divided between members in proportion to their contribution. As p…

> So you can't take on equity funding, only debt.

Is this a huge problem?

Re: Who Owns Nebula?

#50

Post by pikminguy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #8
richardwhiuk wrote: post #5

For most respects and purposes, Standard Broadcast is the creators on Nebula.

> For most respects and purposes, Standard Broadcast is the creators on Nebula Then why shell them into a separate vehicle? The purpose is to create two tiers of creators. That's fine. Some took a risk. Others didn't. But it's dishonest to then claim one is being transparent when the only reason for this structure, apart from incompetence or convenience, is obfuscation.

It's kind of a historical happenstance. Standard was created first as a company offering support services for creators. Nebula was one of Standard's offerings which grew to be the main thing.
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