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Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

jacobfilipp.com

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Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#41
"Project Hammer aims to drive more competition and reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector."

In order to assess collusion among Canadian Grocers it is important to understand what gross margins have done, as input costs have run up materially as well. Canadian grocer margins have expanded materially, but nowhere near total food inflation costs. While groceries remain a competitive business in many countries, concentration in Canada has led to a material expansion of gross margins since the early 2010s from the low 20s to the low 30s:

https://ycharts.com/companies/LBLCF/gross_profit_margin.

This is a massive increase in gross margins no doubt, and reflects the concentration of market power in Canada, but it is also important to understand that the total food price increase is driven primarily by food itself increasing in price (COGS for grocers) and general CPI in Canada. Meaning Loblaws is driving a bigger wedge to themselves, as are other grocers, but the bigger problem is general dollar devaluation and food input costs to grocers. It is important to look at both aspects of this problem. Right now if you magically waived a wand to reduce prices by 10%, while cost of goods sold remained flat, it would basically wipe out 15 years of gross margin incease to grocers, but would barely benefit families struggling to feed themself (an extra 10 bucks per 100 spent). So yes grocers are a problem, but they arent the problem that politicians (NDP and Liberals especially) scape goat them to be. Federal fiscal and monetary policy is MUCH more likely to be the main culprit to food price increases, and most politicians should be looking in the mirror as opposed to simply blaming grocers (who are also to blame, but lets use pareto's principle here).

Date Value June 30, 2024 33.13% March 31, 2024 32.80% December 31, 2023 32.16% September 30, 2023 31.38% June 30, 2023 32.22% March 31, 2023 32.37% December 31, 2022 31.56% September 30, 2022 31.48% June 30, 2022 32.34% March 31, 2022 32.03% December 31, 2021 31.76% September 30, 2021 31.30% June 30, 2021 31.71% March 31, 2021 31.15% December 31, 2020 30.17% September 30, 2020 29.92% March 31, 2020 30.86% December 31, 2019 30.91% September 30, 2019 30.37% June 30, 2019 31.00% March 31, 2019 30.70% December 31, 2018 30.75% September 30, 2018 29.94% June 30, 2018 30.77% March 31, 2018 30.26% Date Value December 31, 2017 29.82% September 30, 2017 29.02% June 30, 2017 29.22% March 31, 2017 29.45% December 31, 2016 28.81% September 30, 2016 27.91% June 30, 2016 28.24% March 31, 2016 28.77% December 31, 2015 27.92% September 30, 2015 27.05% June 30, 2015 27.67% March 31, 2015 28.14% December 31, 2014 27.63% September 30, 2014 26.27% June 30, 2014 19.75% March 31, 2014 24.51% December 31, 2013 23.91% September 30, 2013 23.15% June 30, 2013 23.64% March 31, 2013 23.99% December 31, 2012 23.23% September 30, 2012 23.29% June 30, 2012 23.63% March 31, 2012 23.83% December 31, 2011 23.18%

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#42
Top three grocery companies in Norway, which have almost the entire grocery market here between them, just got fined[1] for price collusion.

They'd signal rising prices for a category by rising the price on certain products within that category, was one accusation. Extensive use of price scouts aided in this.

Initially the fine was much larger, but ended up at about 450M USD total between the three.

For comparison, the larger company had roughly the same amount as profit before taxes[2] in 2023.

The recent heavy inflation in grocery prices has been far greater than what say the farmers got for the raw products.

That said, here in Norway we have a ridiculous amount of smaller, local grocery stores, rather than fewer larger ones here and there.

As I sit here, in the outskirts of Oslo, within a 15 minute walk I have 8 grocery stores, all from the top three.

[1]: https://www.nrk.no/norge/daglegvare-etterforskinga_-4_9-mill...

[2]: https://www.dn.no/handel/resultathopp-for-norgesgruppen-tjen...

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#43
post #40
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So they can collude on just a few essentials, like I don't know... Bread maybe? And make an absolute killing on bread and mask those profits by claiming that their overall profits are down? 1. If they actually want to make a profit, surely it'd make sense to price fix some high value/volume item rather than something cheap like bread? If anything choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil vil…

> If they actually want to make a profit, surely it'd make sense to price fix some value/volume item rather than something cheap like bread? Weird that they price-fixed bread for so long then. If it wasn't for profit, was it just for pure hatred of poor people or what? > If anything choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil villainy. I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for a 15-year price…

>I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for multiple vendors colluding on prices.

I'm not sure why you're going so hard on this strawman. At no point did I argue it was okay to price fix. In fact in my previous comment I was pointing out specifically that it wasn't okay.

>Who cares if margins across the board are low?

>I'm upset that there is a history of collusion in the pricing of the food I have to buy to live. I support efforts to make sure more collusion is not happening.

Your original claim was "many of the groceries I buy seem to have gone up in price at a rate well outpacing inflation". arcticbull's response was that grocery store margins have stayed low. That seems like a perfectly reasonable response to your claim. You also mentioned bread price fixing, but I don't think anyone is claiming "well their margins are low so price fixing doesn't exist". It's clear that he was addressing your point about overall grocery prices. In that context looking at overall inflation makes more sense than pointing out one specific item has high margins. More to the point, inflation is derived from the price changes from a basket of items. It's therefore almost guaranteed that there's going to be items that will rise higher than inflation. The mere fact that some prices are rising faster than inflation isn't evidence of collusion or price fixing.

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#44
post #43
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If they actually want to make a profit, surely it'd make sense to price fix some value/volume item rather than something cheap like bread? Weird that they price-fixed bread for so long then. If it wasn't for profit, was it just for pure hatred of poor people or what? > If anything choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil villainy. I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for a 15-year price…

>I don't buy "incompetence" as an excuse for multiple vendors colluding on prices. I'm not sure why you're going so hard on this strawman. At no point did I argue it was okay to price fix. In fact in my previous comment I was pointing out specifically that it wasn't okay. >Who cares if margins across the board are low? >I'm upset that there is a history of collusion in the pricing of the food I have to buy to live. I…

>I'm not sure why you're going so hard on this strawman.

You literally said: "choosing to price fix bread seems more like incompetence than evil villainy"

Replying to that is a strawman? Okay.

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#46
post #2

I'm sure there is a theory of how this would reduce prices - what is it? Real estate markets became infinitely more transparent over the last couple of years, to the extent that the data is used to train data scientist. The result? Speculators entered the market at it's messed up.

That's not how that worked - real estate data was always fairly public and if you had enough money it was straightforward to hoover it up - the change in approach was more about the last housing crisis and then ZIRP buoying huge tech and real estate interests to drive into home buying in the first place.

We had people who were underwater for years combined with a new market that cant afford the extremely high fixed costs and end up eventually paying rents higher than the mortgage in many principalities.

If you have a ton of capital it makes perfect sense to park it in a place where you have a guaranteed return.

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#47
Doesn't making this data available also provide it to the grocers? Is it still "collusion" if they all just start raising their prices to public benchmarks on any items where they're low? They're not "working with each other" now. They're just "analyzing the publicly available data to remain competitive."

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#48

Top three grocery companies in Norway, which have almost the entire grocery market here between them, just got fined[1] for price collusion. They'd signal rising prices for a category by rising the price on certain products within that category, was one accusation. Extensive use of price scouts aided in this. Initially the fine was much larger, but ended up at about 450M USD total between the three. For comparison, t…

I am almost convinced this is happening here in Austria too. I have to be open to the possibility it’s just my imagination but damn it feels too suspicious at times. Haven’t seen anything in the news, however.

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#49
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but even during the price fixing period Loblaws' profit margin was sub-5%, and currently sits a 3.3%. Yes, it obviously shouldn't have happened, but there's no piñata of profit just waiting to be smashed apart that would magically drop grocery bills.

The profit margin figure cited for grocers is the margin on their "main business" — i.e. revenue on grocery goods sold minus cost of grocery goods from suppliers. But this ignores other ways grocers make money (at much higher margin) — e.g. by charging their suppliers for shelf space/positioning.

It also ignores that they often own the suppliers. "Woops, our supplies raised the price, so we need to too."

Re: Project Hammer: reduce collusion in the Canadian grocery sector

#50
canada's attitude toward competition is different than that of the US though. our agricultural products (dairy, wheat, maple syrup, and to a lesser extent retail beer and alcohols) are controlled by state monopolies who set prices.

the reason food is so expensive is because of fuel costs from the last few years, which were further not-helped by both an increase in federal taxes on fuel and the semi-official policy of weakening the CAD against the USD to support exports that weakens purchasing power. the effort appeals to economically illiterate constituents who support "price controls."

if you want to know where canada is on its de-kulakization spiral, the state is blaming "price gougers" for its policy failures, next are hoarders, speculators and probably "international bankers," on the list of clichés.

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