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The Future of European Competitiveness

commission.europa.eu

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Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#41

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

throwaway48540 wrote: post #35
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that the EU is painted as a failure unless they have low taxes and industrious go-getters trashing their system. Their awesomeness doesn't show on a balance sheet so it might as well not exist.

I live in EU. What awesomeness? There are places with better social and health services while having less taxes and regulations. The regulations are making actual day to day life hard for everyone, directly as well as indirectly. EU is surviving, but I definitely wouldn't - and don't know anyone who would - say it's thriving. Most of my friends who work in software and other hitech are planning their move to US.

Life expectancy? Happiness?

https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happines...

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#42

Post by magicalhippo »

We make B2B software that we sell in several EU countries, which interfaces with official systems.

Even though all countries are subject to the same EU rules, and follow the same underlying technical model, each country has its own laws and regulations, and separate implementations.

So even though our software does "the same thing" in each country, it's so different that a lot of code is per-country, over 50%.

So it's several times the job of doing it once.

However, that's the easy bit, it just takes more development time. The hard part is getting access to systems, coordinate testing and all those things which require national agencies to answer. And if they have to get an answer from some EU instance, well, it's usually blind luck if we get a response.

Just as an example, it took us over a year to get test access to a new system, because access was given centrally in EU, even though the endpoint was hosted nationally. And that was for the country where we managed to get access...

I get that US state laws differ, but from my understanding it's not nearly as different as it is between member countries in the EU.

And we're just doing B2B, which I assume is easy mode.

I just don't see how we can compete when at best you can access a fraction of the users without a nightmare of red tape and whatnot.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#43

Post by throwaway48540 »

2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #41
throwaway48540 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in EU. What awesomeness? There are places with better social and health services while having less taxes and regulations. The regulations are making actual day to day life hard for everyone, directly as well as indirectly. EU is surviving, but I definitely wouldn't - and don't know anyone who would - say it's thriving. Most of my friends who work in software and other hitech are planning their move to US.

Life expectancy? Happiness? https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2016/02/25/happines...

Try to talk to people instead of relying on some abstract numbers.

"Yeah I'm so happy I have a job paying 500 USD per month, and I am so happy my 1.5-room flat rent is just 350" is a very common thing to hear where I live. The tax rate is 35% btw.

Also, try to find newer statistics at least. 2016 was around the local maxima, everything went to shit - very noticeably - during and after covid.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#44

Post by MangoCoffee »

frankjr wrote: post #5

> Europe largely missed out on the digital revolution led by the internet and the productivity gains it brought: in fact, the productivity gap between the EU and the US is largely explained by the tech sector. The EU is weak in the emerging technologies that will drive future growth. Only four of the world’s top 50 tech companies are European. > Europe is stuck in a static industrial structure with few new companies…

Another point to consider: what happened to Telegram's CEO?

Pavel Durov was arrested because he didn't police his platform sufficiently or whatever, or so France claims.

That alone is unsettling. It's been discussed among techies on Twitter. Why would anyone smart enough to create something want to start a company in the EU?

Why risk your neck to start a startup in such an environment?

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#45

Post by zelos »

> The EU is entering the first period in its recent history in which growth will not be supported by rising populations....We will have to lean more on productivity to drive growth.

Hasn't the second part always been the case? Is there any advantage to boosting raw GDP without also increasing GDP per capita?

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#46

Post by vaylian »

> Europe has abruptly lost its most important supplier of energy, Russia

That's a very short and simplistic way to put it. We didn't lose Russia as a supplier. We chose to largely cut our economic ties with a nation that commits war crimes on a massive scale and that threatens the security of Ukraine and other European nations.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#47

Post by eastbound »

htk wrote: post #13
wiz21c wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regulatory barriers constrain growth in several ways I fail to see why it is a bad thing. We need to curb CO2 emissions which, in some wya or another, implies consuming less energy. Limiting the growth would certainly beneficial and would allow us to transition to world where growth is less central.

That's the mindset that created the problems highlighted by the report.

Indeed.

While I’ve always counted water drop by drop, washed my hands with a tiny strip of water, I’m traveling through the Russian/Middle East and there is no such water shortage visible. Pipes leak everywhere on the street, and there is still tap water everywhere, unlike Europe where I lack pressure to wash in the mornings.

Petrol is 1.10€ a liter here, far from the 2.00€ in France. Going 500km is easy, in France it’s unaffordable for students.

I feel like I’ve been lied to. In fact, on every topic restraining growth, I’ve been lied to. The over sensitization that EU does for feel-good reasons, satisfying the soul of young adults, is leading us into a green soviet situation.

If it solved problems, I’d be all in. But it’s only reinforcing green sovietism, aka poverty for the glory of a green ideal that is never reached.

Sorry but the garbage patch in the Pacific is bigger than ever, and the rest of the world is still using air conditioning. It’s only the Europeans who are deprived.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#48

Post by wiz21c »

blackbear_ wrote: post #11
wiz21c wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Regulatory barriers constrain growth in several ways I fail to see why it is a bad thing. We need to curb CO2 emissions which, in some wya or another, implies consuming less energy. Limiting the growth would certainly beneficial and would allow us to transition to world where growth is less central.

> I fail to see why it is a bad thing. First page of the foreword: > If Europe cannot become more productive, we will be forced to choose. We will not be able to become, at once, a leader in new technologies, a beacon of climate responsibility and an independent player on the world stage. We will not be able to finance our social model. We will have to scale back some, if not all, of our ambitions. This is an existen…

From your own citation:

> We will not be able to become, at once, a leader in new technologies, a beacon of climate responsibility and an independent player on the world stage.

Important words here are "at once" == simultaneously. We'll have to choose. So I choose: "beacon of climate responsibility". In particular, I don't care being a leader in new technologies. Being and independent player is something where I can understand the need to compromise on carbon emission...

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#49

Post by chairmansteve »

clarionbell wrote: post #22
Mistletoe wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is though that I want to move to Europe precisely for all these same reasons. And I want to do it with my USA dollars and wealth that enabled it, so I do recognize the dissonance there. Are Europeans happier due to all of the reasons you listed? Do you enable wealth to grow at the expense of the happiness of its residents if you implement the reforms needed to “move fast and break things”? Are Americans hap…

Problem is that it's not sustainable. We can't defend ourselves, our economies are de-industrializing, we have right and left radical taking over political spectrum all the while our pension and healthcare systems are moving ever closer to a breaking point. The careful approach may have brought as pretty far. But isn't working anymore. It hasn't worked since 2008 at least.

Not sure that the US has worked since 2008 either. The streets are full of homeless. Half the population is angry enough (about what I'm not sure), that they are about to elect a self described dictator.

Re: The Future of European Competitiveness

#50

Post by prof-dr-ir »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #32
lapcat wrote: post #8

As an American, what I've seen, and what the statistics appear to show, is mostly stagnation for the majority of the population. Any modest post-pandemic wage gains have been offset by consumer product inflation. What we experience in the United States is the continuation of a trend going back 40-50 years: disparity of wealth, concentrating at the top. Of course those at the top have experienced spectacular growth in…

I’m curious what statistics you’re looking at. If you look at media real (inflation-adjusted) earnings, they’re considerably higher than one, two or any number of decades ago, even with the cost disease that medical and schooling sectors suffer from. Not only that, but wage growth has been faster for those earning below the median income than for those earning more. Absolute poverty rates have also fallen dramaticall…

> they’re considerably higher than one, two or any number of decades ago

I do not think that is correct? This actually shows stagnation for at least 2 decades in real median household income:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United...

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