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How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

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Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#41

Post by raverbashing »

Jupital wrote: post #30
iknowstuff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be okay with highly skilled immigrants then? Or would large amounts of them (us) piss you off as well? I consider the fact that anyone can come to America and become American regardless of ethnicity actually amazing. Fuck nation states where you need to look a certain way to be considered as one of them.

[flagged]

> No, I literally could not care less about the 'economy'.

People who say that usually go crazy when gas goes up .50 a gallon then they can't afford filling their monster truck on top of the 1000/mo payment already

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#43

Post by pif »

carom wrote: post #5

>Recent immigrants tend to earn less than U.S.-born workers because of their lower level of education, lack of English, and in some cases because they are working without permission. They might also compete with existing workers with less education and put downward pressure on their wages, too. This is my biggest problem with immigration. It is a handout to corporations. If we think about the poorest Americans, this…

> It is a handout to corporations.

You are right, but unfortunately you are not completely right.

The problem lies in a universal truth: people buy cheap.

A corporation that can afford lower wages is a corporation that can maintain its customer base. If American corporations stooped their effort in reducing costs, they'd lose their effort to foreign corporations with easier access to lower wages and less ecological constraints.

The enemy of the poorest Americans are not the immigrants, but the richer Americans. As a thought experiment, imagine running a trade shop employing only American workers: start advertising the fact that you pay socially-acceptable wages to them; and explain your potential customers that, by paying more for the same service, they'll get the honour of helping their fellow citizens. I'm sure your phone will not ring that often!

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#44

Post by atlas_hugged »

Jupital wrote: post #8

[flagged]

I’m not working those fields, neither will anyone I know. Will you, or anyone you know?

Those field workers, that literally keep us fed, have like 2/3 the life expectancy of the average American in the same area, or something ridiculous like that. Too lazy to google the exact numbers at the moment (on my phone). This is an open “secret” of the industry. Sadly slavery still exists, just doesn’t look like it used to.

I think you think you know more than you actually know. When I started reading about it, I wished I hadn’t. I felt sick to my stomach hearing the shit that still goes on to this day.

“Looting the coffers for welfare…” The reality is so bad, I can’t stomach learning any more about it. I feel so awful for those poor people.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#46

Post by spwa4 »

biorach wrote: post #28
ajkdhg wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it distorts wages as a function of supply and demand. Workers cannot bargain, because corporations simply import new people. In the EU it is done by both importing people and extending the EU eastwards. The quality of life has dropped dramatically in the original EU countries.

> The quality of life has dropped dramatically in the original EU countries. This is, on the whole, bullshit.

I think you'll find people in the EU compare their situation to the economic situation of their parents. That comparison goes very badly. In the 70s-80s-90s an uneducated worker could support a "suburban" house (newly built, that they'd own after 20 years or so and retire in), stay-at-home wife, car, send 2-3 kids to school and college and have money left over for a yearly holiday with 5 people.

Compare that to even a current PhD making 3k euros per month with house prices starting at 300k for pretty bad (certainly not newly built) and smaller than the one their parents had, and they find they can't afford it on 2 full-time wages.

So "quality of life has dropped dramatically". Yes. Yes it has. In other ways quality of life has advanced, yes, but the basics ... the basics are a disaster.

And this is the situation in the most economically prosperous side of Europe. Ireland, the Netherlands, Belgium, Nordics, France, Germany. If you do the same comparison in the middle or south of France, Northern Italy or Spain it'll be 10x worse. If you do it in Portugal, Southern Italy or Greece, it'll be 100x worse, hence everybody is leaving. And if you do it in Eastern Europe it'll be even worse: everyone (who even remotely can) HAS left.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#47

Post by the_real_cher »

raverbashing wrote: post #31
the_real_cher wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> a legacy American like Mark Cuban From Wikipedia > His paternal grandfather changed the surname from "Chabenisky" to "Cuban" after his family emigrated from Russia through Ellis Island.[14][15] His maternal grandparents were Romanian Jewish immigrants

Immigrant from Europe right?

That's where everyone in America came from.

Same culture, same history, same values.

Western civilization seems to create high trust societies that other cultures struggle to replicate.

People say America was founded on immigration which is true but they neglect to say that it was immigration FROM EUROPE.

Immigrants from non-western countries weren't allowed into America en masse until the 1965 immigration act.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_...

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#48

Post by Jupital »

hiddencost wrote: post #14
Jupital wrote: post #8

[flagged]

The research is pretty overwhelming. Immigrants contribute much more than they take, and the increase in prosperity benefits everyone. You should actually sit down and study the topic, because your belief system is terrifying in its ignorance.

[flagged]

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#49

Post by pif »

Jupital wrote: post #30
iknowstuff wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you be okay with highly skilled immigrants then? Or would large amounts of them (us) piss you off as well? I consider the fact that anyone can come to America and become American regardless of ethnicity actually amazing. Fuck nation states where you need to look a certain way to be considered as one of them.

[flagged]

> a nation of people of shared blood, culture, and history.

That time has passed.

Nowadays, travelling is extremely easy compared to a mere century ago. You can have your family half a planet far from your life, and still maintain sufficient contact. Emigration was never this easy.

Re: How immigration remade the U.S. labor force

#50

Post by jyounker »

carom wrote: post #5

>Recent immigrants tend to earn less than U.S.-born workers because of their lower level of education, lack of English, and in some cases because they are working without permission. They might also compete with existing workers with less education and put downward pressure on their wages, too. This is my biggest problem with immigration. It is a handout to corporations. If we think about the poorest Americans, this…

There is an easy solution: Don't require residency for employment. Everyone is entitled to full protections of labor law, document immigrant or not. This eliminates much of the incentive to abuse non-documented labor. Then make it even stronger. If a non-resident employee brings suit against an employer for violating labor laws in a significant way, and they win, then they are entitled to citizenship as repayment for helping to enforce our labor laws.
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