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Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

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41–50 of 178 posts

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#41
post #8

My PM is on vacation this week and I've had to partially fill in. I have been getting frantic urgent emails from roughly 7 am till 1 am. If this is what the guy puts up with, he deserves a couple bucks.

I crossed over from Project Management into Engineering, and my experience was that as a PM my job was to be bothered from Sunup til Sundown and periodically in between. I was expected to know everything about anything that I was asked about, and I was responsible for a large number of people's output without having any authority over them. It was horrible. I think the issue with the SO question is simply the view th…

What you describe is a dysfunctional organization, not a justification for PMs.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#42
post #35
post #8

My PM is on vacation this week and I've had to partially fill in. I have been getting frantic urgent emails from roughly 7 am till 1 am. If this is what the guy puts up with, he deserves a couple bucks.

For receiving emails?

No, for making it so that the rest of the team doesn't have to deal with emails from 7am to 1am.

Part of the PM's or manager's job (at least if they're a good one, anyway) is shielding the rest of the team from administrivia, so that they can be productive.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#43
post #18

I view the PM role akin the role a sweeper plays in curling. A good PM will clear the path for others on the team to do what they do best. Sometimes that's wrangling with devops so the developers can keep programming, or it's calling a meeting with stakeholders to brief them on potential issues before they get out of control. A good PM is offensive, not reactive and thats why a lot of times it seems like they're just…

I always think of "hand-eye coordination".

Hand = Developers Eye = Customers, Marketing, C-staff (read: stakeholders) Coordination = Project managers

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#44

I believe its similar to what happens in other sectors: PMs have to deal with people, do lots and lots of schleps without the constant rewards of creating something, designing something beautiful or the serendipitous discovery of something remarkable. As a developer I m not jealous of their position, I know they get paid better for doing what i Don't want to do

"I know they get paid better for doing what i Don't want to do" You summed it up well. BA/PMs do the dirty work that developers can be shielded from. Dealing with people is always a dirty work but extremely difficult to master. A good BA/PM is one who does this well. If you can tell me that you can get anyone to do anything in a project by your people's skills, power of communication, aggression, I would pay you well and would not want to lose you.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#45

The top rated comment on this question asserts that the reason why programmers have lower salaries is because they are logical, intelligent individuals who refuse to play the politics game and thus are hated by executives. Not only it this incorrect (have you seen the politics in certain open source software projects ?) but it plays into a narrative that programmers want to believe: business people are corrupt and pr…

Programmers tend to think that programming is the most important part of making software. However, managers think that managing is the most important part of making software, and business analysts think that defining business requirements is the most important part of making software. Asking a room of programmers about the value of business analysts is going to result in feedback that is heavily biased. As you say, we've invented a narrative of moral superiority, and it's a seductive one.

I suspect programmers are less correct in their assumption than they would like to believe. Probably more correct than the other two groups of employees, but still less than correct. The sad fact is, most programmers (especially non-entrepreneurs) don't "get" what PM's and BA's do, the same way that most managers don't "get" what programmers do, but their role still provides value (if they're good at their job). The nature of their job often involves filtering crap for their programmers, so the better job they're doing, the more invisible they look.

The value PM's provide is enabling specialization of labor. They act as the interface between business stuff and tech stuff--translating business requirements to tech requirements for their programmers, and tech trade-offs into business trade-off for their stakeholders. It's something that programmers can do themselves (especially entrepreneurial ones), but taking that work off their plate lets them focus on technical matters.

Of course, the above is a perfect world, which is about as common as the mythical sufficiently-smart compiler. Which is to say, it never exists and never will. Nonetheless, there are such things as PM's that provide value. My experience is that ones with non-negative value are about one-in-four, ones with measurably positive value are less than one-in-ten, and if you find one you should pay what it takes to keep them around. YMMV.

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That said, there are reasons why PM's are paid more than their value more often than programmers are. I agree with the majority of these, but I'm restricting my contributions to the portions of my opinions which aren't echoed throughout this thread.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#46
post #38
post #28

Long story short, PMs are closer to the money. When you're managing a project, you know you have a budget of X dollars to get it done. If you get it done in X-P dollars, you can take that to your boss and immediately show that you made, or saved, the company P dollars. As a programmer or engineer, you may not even be directly aware of what the project's budget is, so it's harder for you to demonstrate how much value…

100% agree. It's always about how close you are to the money. The more direct value you provide, the more you get paid. This is why lawyers get paid so much, because firms know that for every hour they bill the firm makes $X dollars. Programmers provide indirect value. If you architect a system that saves months and months of time later down the line, how do you value that?

with hugely inflated numbers that assume the best case scenario for time-savings, fancy charts and graphs, and perhaps even a buzzword laden powerpoint presentation during your annual review.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#47

Aside: Yet another useful and thought provoking question and set of answers on SE shut down "because it's not a good fit for the format".

That's fine by me. IMO, Reddit (as an example) was a great site, until it became popular and the subject material moved to the lowest common denominator. HN would be ruined too if/when you can get away with posts that do not stay within the topics/style that the community was built up from (I would figure that's why politics/sports are explicitly disallowed, and I am happy that such topics are kept off here)

If programmers.SE is supposed to be a site for "professional programmers interested in conceptual questions about software development" and this question doesn't fit that description, turf it. Like I'd expect you to turf "Who are you voting for in the upcoming presidential elections?", no matter how popular that would be.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#48

I'm a little surprised that the top answers on Stack Exchange accept the premise that analysts and PMs get paid higher salaries. That is certainly not the case at my company (mid sized tech startup), nor I would imagine at most other tech companies.

this is the case for many larger organisations.

Re: Why do business analysts and PMs get higher salaries than programmers?

#50
post #18

I view the PM role akin the role a sweeper plays in curling. A good PM will clear the path for others on the team to do what they do best. Sometimes that's wrangling with devops so the developers can keep programming, or it's calling a meeting with stakeholders to brief them on potential issues before they get out of control. A good PM is offensive, not reactive and thats why a lot of times it seems like they're just…

Just a tip, if you want to keep with your sports metaphors, and meant to say "a good PM is on the offensive", you probably meant "a good PM is proactive (acts to solve a problem before it shows up)". Describing someone as 'offensive' is saying there is something about them that offends you.
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