Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

pv-tech.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 299 posts

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#41

Post by londons_explore »

Kuinox wrote: post #39
londons_explore wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Power cables are getting cheaper and cheaper. The expensive part used to be the voltage conversion stations at the ends, but with mass production of MOSFETs for EV's these have now become far cheaper than the JFET's and other exotic silicon that used to be used. In turn, that means voltages can be higher, letting one use more of the cheaper PVC or XLPE insulating material and less expensive aluminium for the same amo…

What material is made the power cable ? I thought copper was getting more and more expensive ?

Some use Copper, but usually Aluminium is used.

Aluminium is far less dense, which in turn makes the whole cable bigger, which has other costs (eg. fewer kilometers of cable fit in a boat). Usually it's still the best choice overall though.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#42

Post by xandrius »

tdrz wrote: post #36
topherhunt wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally unresearched, but my gut says it would be much higher ROI for Europe + North America to independently source solar from their respective nearby deserts, paired with batteries?

I would hope Europe has learned a lesson not to depend on unreliable partners for its energy.

But if it's cheaper, let's take those easy wins and think about that later!

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#43

Post by Tade0 »

gdiamos wrote: post #3

How much copper would you need for a 4,300km 2GW subsea cable?

At this length aluminium would have been used instead most likely.

With a typical HVDC line not exceeding 1200mm2 conductor cross section it's about 13k tonnes, so 0,025% of global aluminium production.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#44

Post by christophilus »

Djdjur7373bb wrote: post #5

Does it actually make economic sense to run a cable large enough for that kind of power from Australia to Singapore? I would have guessed there must be enough domestic customers or in Indonesia that would make more sense.

My very first thought was: that cable gets snipped in wartime.

Not a big deal, if your grid can handle the loss, but this certainly can’t be the gameplan for the bulk of your power.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#45

Post by littlestymaar »

Tade0 wrote: post #34
tdrz wrote: post #31

This sounds good! I don't know much about electricity, can anyone tell me if such an undersea power cable could be technically feasible between Europe and North America? Possibly taking a detour through Iceland which has significant geothermal resources. I understand that it would take much more than just the cable between the two continents to make this work - right now there are issue on the continents themselves t…

Exactly such a project is currently being explored, while a UK-Morocco line is continuing development: https://www.current-news.co.uk/uk-us-transatlantic-interconn... Weirdly enough the latter is projected to cost less than the now infamous Hinkley Point C nuclear power plant.

Given how well the Australian project is going (it's a long running project that's already late before even starting) I'm convinced that this project will have the same woes which comes from the mere fact of being massive long-term infrastructure projects and have nothing to do with nuclear being special.

By the way, do you know what cost the most money on the HPC project? Loan interests, by a very large margin. Because of the risk of project failure given the lack of government guarantees, they had to borrow at a baffling 9% interest rate in a world if zero interest rate. This is the insanity that drove the cost to the sky, not the engineering side of things.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#46

Post by tdrz »

bobthepanda wrote: post #29
gonzo41 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Data Centers, Green Steel production. Power == Opportunities. This is such a massive win for the environment.

You need water for all of that and that part of Australia is pretty arid.

With cheap energy, desalination might make economic sense for Australia.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#47

Post by leoedin »

Djdjur7373bb wrote: post #5

Does it actually make economic sense to run a cable large enough for that kind of power from Australia to Singapore? I would have guessed there must be enough domestic customers or in Indonesia that would make more sense.

Yeah - from a purely technical point of view it seems strange that you'd run a power cable 2000 miles to Singapore to service 4 million people, running alongside the coast of Bali, Java and Sumatra - population 210 million.

Presumably those in Singapore have a lot more buying power though. And the politics are more favourable for big capital investment projects.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#48

Post by left-struck »

Maakuth wrote: post #14
jibes21 wrote: post #4

Can someone explain how this makes sense economically, isn't it really expensive and lossy to transport electricity such a long distance?

You double the voltage and halve the resistance. With longer cables you can invest more in more expensive stuff at the ends to deal with the high voltage.

Resistance stays the same, loss due to resistance goes down. I’m not sure it halves either, it might be better than halving but I’m not sure myself.

Edit: Basic power loss formula is P=I^2R, so yes power loss is divided by 4 for a 2x increase in voltage assuming the target power delivered is held constant.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#49

Post by joha4270 »

littlestymaar wrote: post #45
Tade0 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly such a project is currently being explored, while a UK-Morocco line is continuing development: https://www.current-news.co.uk/uk-us-transatlantic-interconn... Weirdly enough the latter is projected to cost less than the now infamous Hinkley Point C nuclear power plant.

Given how well the Australian project is going (it's a long running project that's already late before even starting) I'm convinced that this project will have the same woes which comes from the mere fact of being massive long-term infrastructure projects and have nothing to do with nuclear being special. By the way, do you know what cost the most money on the HPC project? Loan interests, by a very large margin. Beca…

> By the way, do you know what cost the most money on the HPC project? Loan interests, by a very large margin.

That sounds very interesting, do you happen to have a source nearby? I would love to have that one in my back pocket next time i end up in a discussion on nuclear power.

Re: Australian government approves AAPowerLink project to export solar to Singapore

#50

Post by joha4270 »

Tade0 wrote: post #34
tdrz wrote: post #31

This sounds good! I don't know much about electricity, can anyone tell me if such an undersea power cable could be technically feasible between Europe and North America? Possibly taking a detour through Iceland which has significant geothermal resources. I understand that it would take much more than just the cable between the two continents to make this work - right now there are issue on the continents themselves t…

Exactly such a project is currently being explored, while a UK-Morocco line is continuing development: https://www.current-news.co.uk/uk-us-transatlantic-interconn... Weirdly enough the latter is projected to cost less than the now infamous Hinkley Point C nuclear power plant.

Real projects has a way of encountering unexpected troubles in a way thay paper ones dont.

On top of that there is the energy security problem, even if Morocco is less likey than Russia to try and play tricks.

I wish them all luck, but we can't forget the advantages projects has before leaving Excel.

Post reply on HN