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I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

theguardian.com

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Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#41

Post by mejutoco »

Satam wrote: post #9
INTPenis wrote: post #5

I like the author's positive outlook on life. Because when I see a dog act like that, especially in a family where a child has taken focus, I mostly see a prisoner longing for freedom. Me and my dog have been exclusive for almost a decade now. We have traveled across europe, always by my side. Off leash even, I have always wanted to give my dog the most freedom possible. To heck with human rules. I've mostly worked r…

I think you're right that for a dog to live its best life it needs the ability to spend a lot of time outdoors with relative freedom. Our labrador had the chance to live like that in an excessively very large garden for his last 4 years. I'm glad he got that, I think it made his life much better. Looking back, when he stayed with us in an apartment he must've been depressed.

Not saying it is your case, but I want to add:

I think it also depends on the mental stimulation. Hiking I see many country houses big gardens. The dogs in them are rarely walked, and bark at anything that passes in ftont of the house all day long.

I think a dog that lives in a house but gets proper stimulation and walks is happier that thosr garden dogs.

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#42

Post by sorokod »

pdonis wrote: post #18
abainbridge wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. When I walk into a room containing my dog and the poo it did on the carpet two hours earlier, it is sorry about what it did.

> When I walk into a room containing my dog and the poo it did on the carpet two hours earlier, it is sorry about what it did. This shows that the dog knows it did something you didn't want it to do, yes. I'm not sure it shows "thinking about ourselves, scrutinising and evaluating what we do and why we do it", which is how the article this discussion is about described "mental reflection". Our dogs have made messes i…

What would a metric for measuring distance on this continuum look like?

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#43

Post by jxcl »

fyt2024 wrote: post #39
carom wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I go to campsites and wilderness areas where dogs are allowed off leash. It is pretty much the best thing I can do for my dog. She mostly sleeps in the dirt all day after a morning hike when we are camping. I have a radio collar and a directional antenna so I can find her if she runs off, but she never has. Even on long backpacking trips she has always been within a few hundred feet. Obviously, make sure your dog's t…

"I go to campsites and wilderness areas where dogs are allowed off leash." In the US? I move with my golden retriever back to the states. Should someone have a dog friendly place to rent in NJ close to NYC, Hoboken....

In the US, wilderness area is a specific legal term[1], which have very restrictive rules about what visitors are allowed to do. Very specifically, dogs are _not_ allowed off-leash in wilderness areas, because they can disturb the local wildlife, and the stated goal of wilderness areas is to protect the local wildlife to the highest extent possible.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilderness#United_States

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#44

Post by bartread »

Fomite wrote: post #27
gretch wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a dog owner, I agree with you. I KNOW that my dog would never hurt anyone. But I also know that no one else in the world has spent hundreds of hours with my dog, and to them he is a strange and large animal. Inevitably some of these ppl probably have some kind of childhood trauma related to dogs. So I always have him leashed where the rules are to have a leash.

This. As a dog owner, my dog remains on a leash. I don't know you. I don't know your dog. More than once, I've been put in the position where my dog is getting agitated because they're on leash, their dog can't be controlled because they're off leash, and we're rapidly approaching the "Swift kick or risk injury" stage. "My dog is off leash because I want them to have freedom" is a profoundly selfish decision if you'r…

> "My dog is off leash because I want them to have freedom" is a profoundly selfish decision if you're in a place to encounter other dogs.

This is cultural, I think. In the UK at least it’s often the norm for dogs to be off leash in open areas like commons (public land, usually grassy or wooded, or a mix of the two), or in other settings where they’re away from roads and won’t encounter livestock.

On public footpaths in the countryside farmers will put up signs indicating where livestock are and where dogs need to be kept on leash. The rest of the time, again, most dogs will be off leash.

Compliance is really high, with almost all dog owners I see following these rules.

There’s a deterrent as well: if your dog is bothering farm animals the farmer is within their rights to shoot the dog.

I do think the post you’re responding to has a very naive view of dog psychology though. Thousands of years of selective breeding means that dogs are fundamentally not wild animals, and as such their behaviours and needs are quite different from their wild relations, such as wolves. Many breeds of dog are so far removed that they would very likely be incapable of surviving in the wild: I’m thinking principally of designer breeds like pugs which, overall, I strongly disapprove of.

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#45

Post by Mali- »

abainbridge wrote: post #16
pdonis wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any evidence that dogs can perform mental reflection?

Yep. When I walk into a room containing my dog and the poo it did on the carpet two hours earlier, it is sorry about what it did.

Pavlovian response. The dog associates pooing on the carpet with you punishing it/being upset with it.

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#46

Post by BatFastard »

INTPenis wrote: post #5

I like the author's positive outlook on life. Because when I see a dog act like that, especially in a family where a child has taken focus, I mostly see a prisoner longing for freedom. Me and my dog have been exclusive for almost a decade now. We have traveled across europe, always by my side. Off leash even, I have always wanted to give my dog the most freedom possible. To heck with human rules. I've mostly worked r…

I believe you are projecting your feeling onto the dog. My dogs(2) favorite place in the world is curled up in the crook of my legs. But I do think solo dogs are lonely.

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#47

Post by Unearned5161 »

bartread wrote: post #44
Fomite wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. As a dog owner, my dog remains on a leash. I don't know you. I don't know your dog. More than once, I've been put in the position where my dog is getting agitated because they're on leash, their dog can't be controlled because they're off leash, and we're rapidly approaching the "Swift kick or risk injury" stage. "My dog is off leash because I want them to have freedom" is a profoundly selfish decision if you'r…

> "My dog is off leash because I want them to have freedom" is a profoundly selfish decision if you're in a place to encounter other dogs. This is cultural, I think. In the UK at least it’s often the norm for dogs to be off leash in open areas like commons (public land, usually grassy or wooded, or a mix of the two), or in other settings where they’re away from roads and won’t encounter livestock. On public footpaths…

this video corroborates your cultural hypothesis

https://youtu.be/3GRSbr0EYYU?si=Q15kFkFBE-aW2ail

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#48

Post by amrocha »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #8
INTPenis wrote: post #5

I like the author's positive outlook on life. Because when I see a dog act like that, especially in a family where a child has taken focus, I mostly see a prisoner longing for freedom. Me and my dog have been exclusive for almost a decade now. We have traveled across europe, always by my side. Off leash even, I have always wanted to give my dog the most freedom possible. To heck with human rules. I've mostly worked r…

> I believe a dog values freedom more than its immediate personal safety Think you're underestimating how much your dog probably likes you... Dogs have a different relationship to their owner than people do with their best friends or parents. It's like the best parts of each relationship wrapped into one for dogs.

And sometimes relationships are toxic. Yes, the dog stays with its owner, most times at a detriment to its own health.

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#49

Post by amrocha »

BatFastard wrote: post #46
INTPenis wrote: post #5

I like the author's positive outlook on life. Because when I see a dog act like that, especially in a family where a child has taken focus, I mostly see a prisoner longing for freedom. Me and my dog have been exclusive for almost a decade now. We have traveled across europe, always by my side. Off leash even, I have always wanted to give my dog the most freedom possible. To heck with human rules. I've mostly worked r…

I believe you are projecting your feeling onto the dog. My dogs(2) favorite place in the world is curled up in the crook of my legs. But I do think solo dogs are lonely.

How is the original comment projecting, but yours isn’t?

Re: I wag, therefore I am: the philosophy of dogs

#50

Post by 4ggr0 »

nirmel wrote: post #33

I would just like to comment that if you love animals, you should hate pets. The amount of animal factory farming (killing of animals often more intelligent than your canine) required to nourish a domesticated animal over the course of their lives is gross in all senses of the word gross.

then buy a vegetarian/vegan pet :) rabbits, mice, hamsters etc.
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