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China's manufacturers are going broke

economist.com

41–50 of 229 posts

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#41

China's manufactures finding the winners. This is the system working as intended - create many producers in xyz sector via subsidies, hardcore (involution) competition from 1000s in different provinces innovate manufacturing to bare margins, losers go out of business/ get bought up by better competitors and consolidate like _intended_ outcome of other PRC industrial policy. TLDR Set up competitive environment to forc…

> China's manufactures finding the winners

But what happens to the failures, especially since they are overwhelmingly subsidized by local governments?

Shanghai (SAIC), Jiangxi (BAIC), Guangxi (GAG), Guangdong (GAC), Hebei (Dongfeng), Beijing (BAIC), and other prefectures are putting tens of millions of dollars in SoEs that cannot compete with BYD domestically, and face preemptive hurdles entering foreign markets.

If these were private players, it wouldn't matter as much because they could be safely shut down, but these are mixed public-private, and this means a lot of misallocated capital due to political considerations.

Ideally, all these prefectures could better utilize that equivalent amount of money building domestic consumption instead - like I pointed to you before, the median household income in China is still around $350-400/mo in 2024, so even with a loan, a cheap class-A vehicle like a Wuling Hongguang Mini is still pricy.

Instead, these players are forced to export abroad leading to unnecessary trade wars and causing other countries to either limit ToTs with Chinese companies, or force Chinese companies to ToT to domestic players abroad.

This is the same story in PV Cells, Analog Chips, Mobile Phones, etc.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those places are Vietnam and Africa, and it's already happening.

In VN, Chinese manufacturers tend to compete directly with SK and JP FDI, so the RoI isn't too hot, and Chinese manufacturers face the same hurdles American manufacturers faced when entering China (eg. Forced JVs, ToTs, etc)

Too many acronyms!

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#43
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those places are Vietnam and Africa, and it's already happening.

Vietnam and Africa are not their geopolitical rivals.

Vietnam and China have never been any more than allies of absolute convenience.

In fact, in one of the weirder turns of recent geopolitical history, the Vietnamese would prefer to be American allies over Chinese if forced to choose, and it's not even close.

[1]https://www.reddit.com/r/VietNam/comments/1c22j7l/vietnam_st...

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#44
post #32
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can’t find that claim in the article.

If you look at the aggregate of The Economist's "reporting" on China, the GPs comment is correct. One could even argue they are a Chinese asset because they mislead Western investors so fantastically and consistently on basic economic topics, a sort of Great Filter.

>they mislead Western investors so fantastically and consistently on basic economic topics

???

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#45
post #15

Well, if they want to learn from the US, they should ship their manufacturing capacity and intellectual property off to their geopolitical rival for short-term monetary gain.

China was actually trying to heavily establish offshoring in the Philippines—but that has seemingly dried up with the increasing South China Sea tensions.

Looks like militarism and imperialism are not compatible at that crazy new 21th century world.

IMO, that's a good development. I hope it lasts.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#46
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would not say that this is trivially corrected. The latest news from Boeing is that American manufacturing has been obliterated. Rebuilding the skill and culture that has been lost is neither easy nor guaranteed.

Not a good example because Boeing didn’t outsource. China flies Boeing airframes made in the US and has for the last 50 years. Boeing is an example of financiers running the company from an ivory tower on the other side of the country.

Boeing’s entire problem was not realizing they were offshoring by moving to a location with no engineering culture.

Getting quality out of a right-to-work state is difficult.

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#47
post #38

Genuine question, if they have so much excess capacity and low domestic demand, wouldn't it be easier to just export to other countries? Or are there barriers put in place in the world stage that limits this?

You are suggesting that China "just" exports an order of magnitude more.

That's not a simple "just" you have there. Who is buying all those goods?

Re: China's manufacturers are going broke

#48
post #38

Genuine question, if they have so much excess capacity and low domestic demand, wouldn't it be easier to just export to other countries? Or are there barriers put in place in the world stage that limits this?

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0. https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy99z53qypko#

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