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Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

argdown.org

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Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#42
post #32

From time to time, I see a tool to present a discussion as a tree with arguments for and against it. Unless it is a school essay, arguments don't go that way. It is usually harder to encompass what a node (an atomic fact) is and what a link is (it usually goes beyond "support" and "counter"). Very often, this structure is not a tree. Maybe a DAG with weighted edges, but if it were that straightforward - knowledge gra…

Concur, I discovered UMAP when looking for a way to dimension reduce and visualize embeddings, and it also works on non-embedded data too. Interesting idea to think about it applied to arguments in a debate... especially in conjunction with the work around using LLMs to infer knowledge graphs

https://umap-learn.readthedocs.io/en/latest/basic_usage.html

> Uniform Manifold Approximation and Projection (UMAP) is a dimension reduction technique that can be used for visualisation similarly to t-SNE, but also for general non-linear dimension reduction. The algorithm is founded on three assumptions about the data

1. The data is uniformly distributed on Riemannian manifold;

2. The Riemannian metric is locally constant (or can be approximated as such);

3. The manifold is locally connected.

Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whoah, that's a neat tool! I definitely need to implement this with my scripts. Thanks!

It's abandoned, and tbh it's more trouble than it's worth. It's far easier and more reliable to specify the CLI and have it generate the help text than the other way around. All major languages have good CLI parsing libraries (some in the stdlib itself, like Go and Python).

Yeah..... it seems like it would be fragile and require lots of iterating to converge on a help doc that is both "pretty" and correctly parsed by docopt

Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#44
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be an abandoned project

Yes, according to the archived Rust implmentation[1] which in turn refers you to either clap[2] or structopt[3]. Other implmentations does not mention this but those I looked at had not been touched for years. Either very stable or unmaintained. Unfortunately the latter according to the Rust crate. The dotNet implmentation had a very small version bump in the dependencies but the rest of the project does not seem to…

FWIW, there seems to be a less-abandoned fork here: https://github.com/jazzband/docopt-ng

I'm sticking with argparse though

Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#45
post #23
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems to be an abandoned project

Yes, according to the archived Rust implmentation[1] which in turn refers you to either clap[2] or structopt[3]. Other implmentations does not mention this but those I looked at had not been touched for years. Either very stable or unmaintained. Unfortunately the latter according to the Rust crate. The dotNet implmentation had a very small version bump in the dependencies but the rest of the project does not seem to…

structopt became part of clap proper (as `clap_derive`) when clap v3 was released.

Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#46
post #30

Is there some reason this is all focused around yes/no questions or a single statement? Is it like a standard format that all topics can be reworded to? I'm wondering if this could this be used for something like comparing alternatives to solve a problem. In that case I'd expect the root to be a description of the problem, then alternatives, then pros-cons for those alternatives. I'd never heard of this at all before…

You can organize any number of alternatives as binary choices.

Sure but that forces you to group options in ways that don't always make sense discursively and push some alternatives down the tree, and we all know that arguments that are near the root get the most attention.

Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#47
post #32

From time to time, I see a tool to present a discussion as a tree with arguments for and against it. Unless it is a school essay, arguments don't go that way. It is usually harder to encompass what a node (an atomic fact) is and what a link is (it usually goes beyond "support" and "counter"). Very often, this structure is not a tree. Maybe a DAG with weighted edges, but if it were that straightforward - knowledge gra…

I've experimented with constructing arguments as actual DAGs before here: http://concludia.org/ If you are strict about logical force and premises leading to lemmas and conclusions, I think it works pretty well.

There's a lamport paper lying around somewhere that also talks about representing arguments and proofs as DAGs.

Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#48
post #15

Wow, it’s crazy seeing your dreams randomly pop up on hacker news. Guess I’ll be switching to this syntax! OP, if you’re the author: any plans for next steps? I’ll be folding this into my upcoming book and website (and almost certainly extending it a bit), so I’d be curious to hear if there’s other large scale projects underway. Beautiful docs btw, this style should be a lesson for all of us. I guess you’d expect som…

Not OP, but OP is not the author.

Re: Argdown, like Markdown for argument mapping

#50
post #32

From time to time, I see a tool to present a discussion as a tree with arguments for and against it. Unless it is a school essay, arguments don't go that way. It is usually harder to encompass what a node (an atomic fact) is and what a link is (it usually goes beyond "support" and "counter"). Very often, this structure is not a tree. Maybe a DAG with weighted edges, but if it were that straightforward - knowledge gra…

I've experimented with constructing arguments as actual DAGs before here: http://concludia.org/ If you are strict about logical force and premises leading to lemmas and conclusions, I think it works pretty well. There's a lamport paper lying around somewhere that also talks about representing arguments and proofs as DAGs.

I think it would be fun to include a framework where you could use logical fallacies to support common arguments that include them and ask people who support those arguments to replace them with non-fallacious arguments as a more nuanced way of debating and getting around that all criticism of popular arguments is somehow a strawman.
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