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Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

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Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#41

Post by brigadier132 »

snek_case wrote: post #24
brigadier132 wrote: post #14

It's not just being able to communicate, you need to adopt a persona. As a more experienced engineer that is actually extremely passionate about my work, the difference in the way I'm treated when I adopt a calm, cool persona speaking with a calm voice vs being excited, passionate, and appearing happy is significant. I can communicate the same idea effectively using both personas but being detached, calm and cool jus…

Can you elaborate?

I get much better results when trying to convince people of something when I speak in the generic podcaster voice.

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#42

Post by pc86 »

heeton wrote: post #12

I’ve also stopped calling these soft skills. It’s a comparison to “hard skills”, usually meaning technical skills. And these interpersonal and communication skills are extremely hard. Calling them soft devalues anyone who has cultivated them.

You can stop calling them soft skills if you want but all that's going to do is make it so nobody knows what you're talking about when you call them something else.

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#43

Post by motohagiography »

heeton wrote: post #12

I’ve also stopped calling these soft skills. It’s a comparison to “hard skills”, usually meaning technical skills. And these interpersonal and communication skills are extremely hard. Calling them soft devalues anyone who has cultivated them.

they're typically called "durable skills" outside tech. it reinforces the idea that they are portable between domains and are themselves things to be developed and practiced.

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#44

Post by kube-system »

Another part of considering your audience that I often see overlooked, is understanding how your role and your work fit into a larger picture of the organization's goals. The goal of software engineering isn't ultimately to produce software, it is to accomplish some other real-world task. One of the biggest mistakes I see senior software engineers make, is trying to solve every problem by writing software. A wise software engineer knows when they shouldn't be writing software, but instead solving problems by addressing human processes or engaging with other disciplines.

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#45

Post by [deleted] »

sokoloff wrote: post #30
lotsofpulp wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If I had a family to provide for, I think it would be a much easier decision to take the money. On the contrary, I find that the first or second line of managers above ICs is almost always insufficiently compensated to offset the extra hours/stress/bullshit.

On the other hand, early in my career as an IC, I was already working as many hours as I possibly could (out of interest/passion and driven by myself rather than a boss or PM). As I transitioned into management, there weren't any more hours possible (though I was already well over 40/week). Fully agree on the incremental amount of excess bullshit, though. :)

[deleted]

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#46

Post by saghm »

I'll throw another possible explanation into the mix: the gap between "senior" and "staff" can be quite large in some places depending on the threshold for being titled "senior". I've seen places where promotions to senior is not uncommon for someone 3-4 years out of college but with no staff engineers under the age of 30, and only a few under 35. Without any other granularity of IC roles, the only options for a young engineer are to be "stuck" for a decade at a role with a title so coarse that it doesn't really convey seniority (which tends to mean that the actual "seniority" of an engineer is implicit institutional knowledge), swap to a manager role, or go somewhere else with a more explicit career path for ICs.

The number-based systems at the super large tech companies can be hard to understand from the outside, and they might introduce potential confusion when trying to calibrate between different companies with incompatible systems, but they at least allow for a more clear trajectory for an individual contributor (although whether this actually determines how promotions happen in practice is a crapshoot; internal company politics can't be fixed by nomenclature). I don't think that software engineering is somehow different enough from other professions that levels can't be classified with descriptive names rather than numbers, but clearly _something_ needs to change when we can't even all agree on what "senior" and "staff" mean.

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#47

Post by motohagiography »

these are nice and useful, but kind of basic social skills that you'll find are neither sufficient or necessary (otherwise almost everyone who managed would have them, and having them would yield manager roles). they will make you more likable, and less annoying to deal with for sure. however, the people you ultimately work for have typically learned some variation of this: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/teaching/

Stanford has Pfeffer's Paths to Power, Harvard had the Negotiation Project, and I'm sure the other ivy and oxbridge colleges have something similar. you are up against pros who train on this.

Learn this stuff. we need more people with domain competence in _something_ in positions of power because I think there is an essential moral quality to competence that mitigates its excesses. the basic problem with specialist professional management is the goal of all professions is to sustain themselves first, whereas domain-competent people who manage can offset the crap from ones who just like power over others for its own end.

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#48

Post by [deleted] »

oceanplexian wrote: post #38

Personally I'm going to be the devil's advocate and say that soft skills are vastly overrated. Usually it's the "soft skills" people getting in the way of engineers, and as someone who's been on the other side of the fence purchasing a $1M/yr SaaS product, I want the sales people to get the hell out of the way and connect me with a real engineer. Soft skills are a commodity. I can go to a small town used car dealer a…

[deleted]

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#49

Post by MattPalmer1086 »

oceanplexian wrote: post #38

Personally I'm going to be the devil's advocate and say that soft skills are vastly overrated. Usually it's the "soft skills" people getting in the way of engineers, and as someone who's been on the other side of the fence purchasing a $1M/yr SaaS product, I want the sales people to get the hell out of the way and connect me with a real engineer. Soft skills are a commodity. I can go to a small town used car dealer a…

Speaking as a highly introverted guy, I realised long ago that I would be limiting myself hugely if I didn't learn to get along, communicate effectively, and yes, influence other people.

Soft skills are completely worth acquiring, especially if they don't come naturally to you. You don't have to make them your career focus, but rejecting them will definitely limit how awesomely you can apply your unique value.

Re: Weak Soft Skills: Why you are stuck at the Senior engineer level

#50

Post by Spartan-S63 »

CharlieDigital wrote: post #2

I have observed that a Staff engineer has mastered these three skills: Communication, Adaptability, Challenging Situation Management Normalize being just a really productive IC. Not everyone wants to spend their energy on these facets of a job; some folks just want to build awesome stuff -- and that should be fine.

Yeah, to me, not focusing on those skills is what makes someone a Senior II. I think it needs to be okay for not everyone to make it to staff+ title levels. Those ICs fulfill a different role in the org than a senior engineer. Having multiple senior levels or a wide enough salary band should ensure a suitable terminal path for those who don't want to step into the staff+ space.
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