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'Agua, Agua'

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Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#41

Post by istultus »

CollinEMac wrote: post #35
lambdaba wrote: post #33

While I did in the safety and chillness of my own apartment, I did a 10 day "dry" fast last year. As opposed to water fasting, with dry fasting you are not hungry AT ALL, but the thirst is something else. It's not unrelenting though, it can fade into the background if the air is humid enough and you refrain from talking too much, the mouth hydrates by itself. During dry fasting the body gets H20 from lipolysis (this…

This sounds incredibly dangerous

It is incredibly dangerous, hypernatremia sadly occurs way too often in elderly patients in care homes where the patients are weak or mentally incapacitated and can't/don't ask for a drink of water and/or are ignored by their carers for long enough.

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#42

Post by istultus »

Alupis wrote: post #39
lambdaba wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does indeed sound incredibly dangerous, it isn't though. Russians (and some other European nations chiefly Germany) are into fasting, though I only know about Russians organizing dry fasting retreats, like Dr. Filinov https://www.wildestvitality.com/portfolio/items/winter-2023-... I know it's both a cliché and something that westerners often have forgotten how to do, but you can actually listen to your body and kn…

> Dr Sergey Filonov is a world leader in clinical dry fasting expertise and the successful treatment of diseases, acute illnesses, chronic disorders and undiagnosable conditions. > you can actually listen to your body and know minute by minute if you're in danger or not Friend, this is all hocus pocus bogus from a crackpot doctor. Other sources even say dry fasting is rarely done today (because it's hocus pocus), eve…

From that site:

> Russian physicians have successfully treated many illnesses and diseases outside

> the standardized support of allopathic medicines, as well as more common

> ailments including, but not limited to, mental disorders, bronchial asthma,

> rheumatoid arthritis, hypertension, obesity and diabetes.

I guess the Gulag does cure everything...

(though to be fair, the part of the diseases mentioned that are due to metabolic disease - read: obesity - can be treated early in their course by just losing weight - diabetes and hypertension due to obesity will go away once you drop the weight. Just, you know, drink water if you're fasting. Or join the Darwin Awards, whatever).

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#43

Post by Alupis »

lambdaba wrote: post #40
Alupis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dr Sergey Filonov is a world leader in clinical dry fasting expertise and the successful treatment of diseases, acute illnesses, chronic disorders and undiagnosable conditions. > you can actually listen to your body and know minute by minute if you're in danger or not Friend, this is all hocus pocus bogus from a crackpot doctor. Other sources even say dry fasting is rarely done today (because it's hocus pocus), eve…

Well, I did it, and I felt AMAZING for months after. I don't care about the doctor at all, I only wanted to link to the retreat to people are doing it and paying for it. I'm not advocating anybody do it either, and since it's so difficult, even though it's less than it appears, I don't see anyone jumping in blindly into this. Humans are almost uniquely adapted to starvation. Dry fasting is simply a boosted form of wa…

You may not be aware of the Placebo Effect[1]. What you experienced was not real in the sense that anything changed but your belief you felt better.

While the placebo effect can be a powerful mental illusion, it will not prevent damage to your organs (or death) during this 10 day dry fast. Please don't ever do this.

[1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/the-power-...

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#44

Post by qingcharles »

I used to know a lot of Hispanic immigrants in Chicago. One of them told me his story. It start with his mom sewing two hidden amounts of dollars into the lining of his pants. When the coyotes he'd hired dumped him and 12 others in the desert near the border they were surrounded within minutes by gunmen who put them on their knees. He said a gunman tore straight into his pants and found one of the bundles (but clearly wasn't expecting a second one and didn't find it). He said the gunmen were slashing everyone's water bottles. He begged his captor not to slash his, and him and one other person got lucky. All the bad dudes then left these people to their own fates.

He said he spent three days walking in the desert. They shared the little water they had, but it was gone after a day. Most of the people fell in the desert and didn't get up. At one point a woman with a baby fell and refused to get up. He went back to try and carry her but his two friends dragged him off and told him if he tried to save that woman and her baby that he would die with her. He says a day doesn't go by when he doesn't think about this woman.

On the third night Border Patrol found the three of them, and they all ran, getting split up. He said he spent the entire night hiding in some brush.

In the morning he found a backroad and started following it and a pickup pulled up to him with a Mexican family in it. They took him home, fed and watered him and asked him if he had any money. He gave them everything he had left ($180) and they put him back in the truck and drove him to Chicago and dropped him there with nothing and wished him good luck.

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#45

Post by istultus »

lambdaba wrote: post #33

While I did in the safety and chillness of my own apartment, I did a 10 day "dry" fast last year. As opposed to water fasting, with dry fasting you are not hungry AT ALL, but the thirst is something else. It's not unrelenting though, it can fade into the background if the air is humid enough and you refrain from talking too much, the mouth hydrates by itself. During dry fasting the body gets H20 from lipolysis (this…

Can I ask what led you to doing this?

(And regardless - you usually aren't hungry during an extended water fast either - you do get physiological "pings" during your normal meal times. However, I would assume that if you're depriving yourself of water the body naturally overrides everything with signals for thirst)

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#46

Post by f1shy »

cycomanic wrote: post #32
Enginerrrd wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uhmm, No... no it will not. That is dangerously incorrect. Mineral water may have a small amount of trace minerals, but it has basically zero electrolytes at relevant physiologic concentrations. Functionally, there'd be almost no difference between distilled and mineral water fasting with respect to electrolyte management. Imbalances in sodium, potassium, magnesium and calcium can get VERY serious very quickly. Miner…

> Mineral water may have a small amount of trace minerals, but it has basically zero electrolytes at relevant physiologic concentrations. Functionally, there'd be almost no difference between distilled and mineral water fasting with respect to electrolyte management. This might be correct for what is considered mineralwater in the US (I honestly don't know), but 1l of typical sparkling mineralwater in Germany has abo…

That is 1/3 of the minerals you are supposed to get from water! It is recommended 6g of Na per day, which you will not get just from water.

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#47

Post by lambdaba »

istultus wrote: post #45
lambdaba wrote: post #33

While I did in the safety and chillness of my own apartment, I did a 10 day "dry" fast last year. As opposed to water fasting, with dry fasting you are not hungry AT ALL, but the thirst is something else. It's not unrelenting though, it can fade into the background if the air is humid enough and you refrain from talking too much, the mouth hydrates by itself. During dry fasting the body gets H20 from lipolysis (this…

Can I ask what led you to doing this? (And regardless - you usually aren't hungry during an extended water fast either - you do get physiological "pings" during your normal meal times. However, I would assume that if you're depriving yourself of water the body naturally overrides everything with signals for thirst)

I have MS, where autoimmune processes deteriorate the conductive coating on the nerves (myelin), and fasting is known for greatly boosting myelin repair. In fact, the most effective currently known remyelination treatment is a fasting mimetic (metformin) alongside an antihistamine (clemastine). It also regenerates the immune system, with obvious benefits for optimal functioning.

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#48

Post by lambdaba »

istultus wrote: post #41
CollinEMac wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds incredibly dangerous

It is incredibly dangerous, hypernatremia sadly occurs way too often in elderly patients in care homes where the patients are weak or mentally incapacitated and can't/don't ask for a drink of water and/or are ignored by their carers for long enough.

elderly patients in care homes is a far cry from anyone attempting to do this on their own

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#49

Post by lambdaba »

Alupis wrote: post #43
lambdaba wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I did it, and I felt AMAZING for months after. I don't care about the doctor at all, I only wanted to link to the retreat to people are doing it and paying for it. I'm not advocating anybody do it either, and since it's so difficult, even though it's less than it appears, I don't see anyone jumping in blindly into this. Humans are almost uniquely adapted to starvation. Dry fasting is simply a boosted form of wa…

You may not be aware of the Placebo Effect[1]. What you experienced was not real in the sense that anything changed but your belief you felt better. While the placebo effect can be a powerful mental illusion, it will not prevent damage to your organs (or death) during this 10 day dry fast. Please don't ever do this. [1] https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/the-power-...

Of course placebo is involved in everything, as you know, whether you are aware of it or not, but the results of fasting are well studied and only a web search away.

Re: 'Agua, Agua'

#50

Post by lambdaba »

istultus wrote: post #42
Alupis wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Dr Sergey Filonov is a world leader in clinical dry fasting expertise and the successful treatment of diseases, acute illnesses, chronic disorders and undiagnosable conditions. > you can actually listen to your body and know minute by minute if you're in danger or not Friend, this is all hocus pocus bogus from a crackpot doctor. Other sources even say dry fasting is rarely done today (because it's hocus pocus), eve…

From that site: > Russian physicians have successfully treated many illnesses and diseases outside > the standardized support of allopathic medicines, as well as more common > ailments including, but not limited to, mental disorders, bronchial asthma, > rheumatoid arthritis, hypertension, obesity and diabetes. I guess the Gulag does cure everything... (though to be fair, the part of the diseases mentioned that are du…

Right, I sense a lack of open-mindedness here, or curiosity, fasting is widely recognized as having unique effects on stem cells including the immune system.
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