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Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

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Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#41

[flagged]

Instead of expressing your knowledge and superiority by metaphorically rolling your eyes without contributing anything, how about you give a better explanation? Because honestly, I find these two kind-of "okay".

And because this is HN, based on past experience, I need to preface with the fact that I'm a professor of math. So no need to start by questioning my knowledge on the topic, just get straight to the point.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve got the fundamental theorem of arithmetic. What more could they want?

I think that misses the point which is that the simplicity is overlooked in the common descriptions of primes as "random" or a great "mystery".

Yes, it’s difficult to predict where such an understanding might lead. If it reframes and redefines all of number theory, then we might call it one component of the foundational theory of number theory.

Analogously, if someone proves that P = NP, then that will be great, but the significance of lambda calculus and Turing completeness will remain. If the proof is constructive and practical, we’ll just have to reprioritize and update the list of algorithms we teach to undergrads, issue performance-enhancement updates to some software libraries, and patch any security vulnerabilities. Otherwise, we’ll only need to change a chapter or two in the Theory of Computation courses that universities are increasingly deprioritizing.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#43
post #22
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does the move to elliptic crypto suggest that the people in the know expect prime factorisation to be broken soon?

Since no one mentioned, a major reason to prefer elliptic curves is that you can get equivalent security for much smaller key sizes.

nice thank you!

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#44
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

does the move to elliptic crypto suggest that the people in the know expect prime factorisation to be broken soon?

It's to do with "if we ever have big/good quantum computers, prime factorization is doable" and with "let's use the new shiny things". On a related note, someone might discover some elliptic curve math tomorrow and your CPU can break all that stuff just as well...

so with my cynic hat on, maybe a bunch of people already have that and that's why we're being moved off the hard stuff.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#45

[flagged]

That this subject [imaginary numbers] has hitherto been surrounded by mysterious obscurity, is to be attributed largely to an ill adapted notation. If, for example, +1, -1, and the square root of -1 had been called direct, inverse and lateral units, instead of positive, negative and imaginary (or even impossible), such an obscurity would have been out of the question. - Gauss

I think Geometric Algebra [1] provide a more natural approach to "imaginary" numbers than Gauss does above.

Not only does these algebras give a more intutive understanding of "imaginary" numbers as rotation in a plane (and not simply an alternative R2).

They also extend nicely into all sorts of applications in Physics, Machine learning, etc where Lie groups are needed.

And there is nothing preventing us from defining e1*e2 as i, and use the regular notation for Complex Analysis where the Group Theory aspects are not needed.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNlgMPzj-7Q

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#46

This got me thinking. Imagine this discovery led to a larger breakthrough on prime numbers that allowed easy factorization of large integers and effectively rendered public key cryptography such as RSA ineffective overnight, by allowing anyone with a consumer-grade CPU to crack any production-size key. Does the industry have DR plans for this scenario? Can the big players quickly switch to a different, unbroken encry…

The industry couldn’t even prepare for a bad Crowdstrike update. And yet, it figured things out in a few days or so.

The ability to prepare for catastrophic scenarios is overestimated. The ability to survive them is underestimated.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#47
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world has moved away from RSA etc to elliptic curves. Not everybody did, through. RSA is no longer the standard, and has not been for many years.

Still, plenty of old stuff was scraped/sniffed under the "store now, decrypt later" methodology.

True. The only solution is to keep your data outside cloud(aka someone else's computer) no matter what encryption you use.

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#48
If you plot the Gauss and Riemann curves in a specific space you see something more magical....

To see what I am talking about as in trivial and non-trivial zeros see this wikipedia animation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Riemann3d_Re_0.1_to_0.9_I...

Basically, it implies that there is another relationship between real and imaginary numbers we have not yet stumbled upon....

And,this has implications upon finding the gravity theory as Riemann math is involved in quantum mechanics....

Strange science that primes is or might be involved in gravity theory....

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#49

This got me thinking. Imagine this discovery led to a larger breakthrough on prime numbers that allowed easy factorization of large integers and effectively rendered public key cryptography such as RSA ineffective overnight, by allowing anyone with a consumer-grade CPU to crack any production-size key. Does the industry have DR plans for this scenario? Can the big players quickly switch to a different, unbroken encry…

From what I remember in my math class where we made those cryptography calculations by hand, the teacher many years ago said that the day we could guess prime numbers it will be a disaster because many cryptographic calculations are based on the premise that we can’t guess prime numbers. I don’t know if that changed ?

It's easy to find primes of a given bit length, and it's easy to multiply them together. It's hard to un-multiply a given number (public key) into its unique prime factors (private key).

Re: Breakthrough a step toward revealing hidden structure of prime numbers

#50

This is from May and there was a better article in Quanta already discussed here. https://www.quantamagazine.org/sensational-proof-delivers-ne...

I am a bit disappointed that the article doesn't explain what the introductory illustration about Sack's spiral has to do with any of this.
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