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Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

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Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#41

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date. Except for gamers, this is no longer true. Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace pa…

This. I think it's also worth noting that for a pro laptop, price is not a major issue, if you're trying to treat your laptop like a BYOB, you're doing it wrong. So:

(a) The RAM capacity is limited by the chipset anyway, and on "pro" machines, most people max out the RAM when they purchase or directly after. It's just that now you can't cheat and buy the RAM elsewhere to avoid an apple price premium.

(b) The SSD is replaceable, it's just not a standard connector. Obviously, 3rd party replacements will show up with a slightly higher cost than a bog standard SATA drive. I view this like the replacement of FW with tbolt, who cares?

(c) (Stock) RAM seldom goes bad before other components, and if it does, you treat it like the other components. They can unplug the SSD from your MBP and plug it into an identical one, swap complete. So we're not talking weeks for a replacement here -- just go to an Apple store. If you're not near an Apple store, you're probably not near a vendor of replacement RAM or SSD drives either.

One issue though: You had better keep that SSD backed up! 'cause if the machine goes south, you have no way of accessing your data unless someone comes out with a apple propretary card egd to sata adapter.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#42

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date. Except for gamers, this is no longer true. Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace pa…

I completely agree. Also, if you ask to "normal" people, they will tell you that one of the reason they love Apple's computers is that if there's any problem, they can just go to the genius bar and solve it. Joe the manager or Susie the mom doesn't care if they can't replace the HD themselves, they want to know that if something happen they don't have to ship their computer somewhere to get it fixed.

There's Geek Squad, or your smart cousin, or a local computer shop for PCs.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#43

This is going to be a trend with Apple. They have a good thing going with the iPhone and iPad devices which are both non-upgradeable: consumers are compelled to buy a new device every couple of years or so. It's pretty clear they're getting rid of the Mac Pro, which is highly configurable (with memory, storage and graphics cards) and thus has a much longer life span. So is Apple aiming for a future where you have to…

"So is Apple aiming for a future where you have to buy a new laptop every 2 years to have a machine that is relevant?"

I have a 2nd gen 13" Air that I got in late '10. Seeing that the 2 year mark will be upon it and it's still supported by Mountain Lion. I have a late '07 Mac Pro that is not supported.

I'm sort of in the middle of this. On one hand, I'd love to keep using my Pro because it still works fine (and I'm one of those types that get's pissed when the machine is slow). I've had to upgrade to ssd, put an ATI 4870 in it, filled it with 16GB ram, still has stock 2x2 3ghz Xeon's. But this has been my main development machine for years and has made me a good amount of money over the years, so I see the upgrades and very reasonable. I still think I could run Mountain Lion fine, but there's the whole 32-bit EFI thing that Apple has handcuffed it with. So this is the downside for me.

On the other hand, I'm not against modernizing everything. I think that Apple does not have to support years of legacy hardware like Microsoft does is a good thing. We can always be assured of the latest and greatest. If I could get min 2-4 years out of a laptop, that would be good for me.

As for Apple locking everything down? I see why they do it - it's all about design. Why include a thicker ram slot(s) when you can just solder it on the board and reduce your profile, or give you better space. We're going to see more and more custom from them, trending away from using off the shelf parts that everyone else will have to use. This will give them a competitive differentiator, which it already does with their unibody laptops.

However, the obvious downside (mostly for geeks/power users) is that we can't buy the 8gb ram option now for less, and then upgrade later. So we're forced into that decision quandary of buy for less now with not what we really want, or pay through the nose up front, grumble a bit, then go on our merry way. The latter is usually where I fall in.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny, I got ten years out of a Mac SE/30, four years out of a PowerBook G4 (Lombard), and five years out of a white iBook G4. I also used a Mac IIcx for almost a year, ten years after its release. My unibody MacBook 13" was on track too, until I beered it. I do not agree.

I guess the question then is how many parts did you have to replace for each of those computers? Did repairs/upgradeability factor into the long lifetimes?

Upgrades: The SE/30 started its life as an SE, so it got the 68030+SuperDrive upgrade, and we put a monitor card in the expansion slot (which I later replaced with a 10BaseT card). Upped the RAM from 1MB to an intimidating 8MB. I think I stuck some RAM in the Lombard and the iBook too.

Repairs: invoked AppleCare once, two years in, when my iBook took a nasty fall off a table.

Apple makes sealed machines with bizarro, non-standard components inside, but by no means are they treated as disposable.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#45
post #23

Has the problem with the high defect rate of SSDs been resolved? Not to long ago, I remember reading of many defects after about 1 year of usage. A SSD defect would now effectively brick the whole MacBook Pro.

It never existed for the Apple branded SSDs - the people who reported that were people who bought the cheapest SSDs and used them with non-SSD-aware filesystems which overwrote the same blocks repeatedly.

SSDs with smarter controllers and filesystems which don't abuse the disk make a huge difference. Apple controls all of these so they should have a much better idea of the reliability factor - and even if you pay for repairs, there's a high risk that an early failure will make you less likely to buy from them next time.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#46

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date. Except for gamers, this is no longer true. Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace pa…

I agree. I bought a white MacBook C2D in late 2006 that is still going strong, with the only things I've replaced being the battery, the HDD and the fan (pretty recently). It's still my primary machine which I use for Python and Java coding on a big retail application.

The fact that most parts are not user-replaceable has never been an issue as with the sole exception of those three parts everything else has lasted extremely well.

That Retina MacBook Pro is looking extremely tempting, however.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree. Also, if you ask to "normal" people, they will tell you that one of the reason they love Apple's computers is that if there's any problem, they can just go to the genius bar and solve it. Joe the manager or Susie the mom doesn't care if they can't replace the HD themselves, they want to know that if something happen they don't have to ship their computer somewhere to get it fixed.

There's Geek Squad, or your smart cousin, or a local computer shop for PCs.

All three of which typically provide inferior service with little expectation of a pleasant interaction or desired outcome.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#49
post #3

How many upgrades does average consumer make on their MacBook Pro? I'd argue it's ~0.

On my 2010 Macbook Pro I upgraded the ram and replaced the rather horrible 5200rpm disk with an SSD. I've upgraded the ram on every Macbook i bought (3), since the default amount is always insufficient and apple-supplied memory was overpriced.

Re: Retina MacBook Pro full of Air-style proprietary parts

#50

Ten years ago, a computer's useful lifetime was measured in months. Hardware specs were advancing so quickly that a two-year-old computer might not be capable of running newly-released software. RAM, disk, and even CPU upgrades were necessary to keep up to date. Except for gamers, this is no longer true. Computers without user-replaceable parts are a natural outcome of the fact that users no longer need to replace pa…

Except may be I can't afford the heavy Apple price tag right now and I only want a 256GB SSD and 8GB RAM to get me started while I save up for a few more months for the other upgrades... not everyone can afford to go all out and go full spec.

Or maybe i think I'm only going to need the lower spec, but having bought my nice new Mac I find it really easy to use and I'm a bit of a genius at this movie editing thing but I could be more of a genius if it was a bit faster... but hang on, now I need to buy a whole new laptop for another £3000. But until my big hollywood blockbuster I can't afford it :(

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