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Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

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Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#41

Post by zulban »

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #37
Rinzler89 wrote: post #2

Should be an EU wide mandate at this point, as it's mostly pros with little cons. Since the options are 1), keep spending EU taxpayer money to boost Microsoft's and other US big-tech market cap, or 2), spend EU taxpayer money on FOSS and local companies implementing and maintaining that FOSS for local infrastructure, then the correct choice seems obvious to me. The only cons are the short term costs, teething issues…

Isn't the Linux/GNU philosophy "Use the best tool for the job". Making OSS always a choice is good, but it is definitely not always the best tool for the job.

Sure, but if you let most people choose, they don't choose the best IT tool. They choose what they know. Or they choose the tool with the best marketing team.

Either way, you can't make a rule for people to choose the best tool for the job. A rule like this may come closer to the GNU Linux philosophy.

Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#42

Post by kenjackson »

binary132 wrote: post #38
jamil7 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In theory, maybe. I think in practise, in the case of somewhere like Germany, they realistically just won't implement the hypothetical feature and let productivity of employees drop even further. There is no motivation or reward in the public sector here for anyone to do anything better or more efficiently. I'm maybe overly cynical about the public sector's ability to get anything done here, I would like to be proven…

It seems like maybe you’re assuming that state employees would be the ones building the required features, but I would guess these are simply going to be makework contracts going to (hopefully) local engineering firms.

No. I’m not assuming that. I assume the governments will have to fund the work, but they will contract it out. But even then governments have struggled to deliver on this.

And even when governments have the funding they tend to be horrible at specifying and getting delivery of technology - at least that’s been the case for the US.

Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#44

Post by acdha »

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #37
Rinzler89 wrote: post #2

Should be an EU wide mandate at this point, as it's mostly pros with little cons. Since the options are 1), keep spending EU taxpayer money to boost Microsoft's and other US big-tech market cap, or 2), spend EU taxpayer money on FOSS and local companies implementing and maintaining that FOSS for local infrastructure, then the correct choice seems obvious to me. The only cons are the short term costs, teething issues…

Isn't the Linux/GNU philosophy "Use the best tool for the job". Making OSS always a choice is good, but it is definitely not always the best tool for the job.

“Best” isn’t a simple objective trait. Is that the one which lets you get your job done for the lowest cost? Or the one with the easiest training and documentation? The most consistent UI so you don’t have to retrain people? The one which avoids geopolitical concerns about ceding control to potentially hostile countries? Is it the one where you have the most control over the direction because e.g. there could be an Swiss digital service cranking out patches for things they would have to haggle with someone at Microsoft or Oracle to get implemented? What about the one which you can most easily fix accessibility problems with? (That last being a legal requirement doesn’t mean that certain companies don’t try to blow it off release after release)

Every one of those will have someone arguing that it should determine “best” status. A compromise like “usable and we have more control” seems quite defensible.

Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#45

Post by rightbyte »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #2

Should be an EU wide mandate at this point, as it's mostly pros with little cons. Since the options are 1), keep spending EU taxpayer money to boost Microsoft's and other US big-tech market cap, or 2), spend EU taxpayer money on FOSS and local companies implementing and maintaining that FOSS for local infrastructure, then the correct choice seems obvious to me. The only cons are the short term costs, teething issues…

It was close that EU ruined FOSS in the union by the warranty proposal. I dunno if that should make me optimistic or pessimistic.

A good start would be to ditch MS in schools. If the supply of ready MS users dwindle companies could easier switch to Linux.

Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#46

Post by acdha »

kenjackson wrote: post #42
binary132 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like maybe you’re assuming that state employees would be the ones building the required features, but I would guess these are simply going to be makework contracts going to (hopefully) local engineering firms.

No. I’m not assuming that. I assume the governments will have to fund the work, but they will contract it out. But even then governments have struggled to deliver on this. And even when governments have the funding they tend to be horrible at specifying and getting delivery of technology - at least that’s been the case for the US.

> And even when governments have the funding they tend to be horrible at specifying and getting delivery of technology - at least that’s been the case for the US.

This is the dysfunctional contracting model combined with “cost savings” removing technical civil service positions, meaning that the government often lacks people who are qualified to review or manage contractors. Groups like the US digital service, 18F, etc. which have staff have much better track records.

Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#47

Post by mordae »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #2

Should be an EU wide mandate at this point, as it's mostly pros with little cons. Since the options are 1), keep spending EU taxpayer money to boost Microsoft's and other US big-tech market cap, or 2), spend EU taxpayer money on FOSS and local companies implementing and maintaining that FOSS for local infrastructure, then the correct choice seems obvious to me. The only cons are the short term costs, teething issues…

This cannot happen. Microsoft writes digital laws in most EU member states.

Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#48

Post by mordae »

kenjackson wrote: post #9
Rinzler89 wrote: post #2

Should be an EU wide mandate at this point, as it's mostly pros with little cons. Since the options are 1), keep spending EU taxpayer money to boost Microsoft's and other US big-tech market cap, or 2), spend EU taxpayer money on FOSS and local companies implementing and maintaining that FOSS for local infrastructure, then the correct choice seems obvious to me. The only cons are the short term costs, teething issues…

The biggest con is IMO the most obvious one. What if a third party non-open source product does something that FOSS can’t do or is dramatically behind on? And are companies going really source local maintainers for FOSS versus the standard maintainer? Eg, is Switzerland really not going to use Canonical for supporting Ubuntu because it is British?

That's nonsense. Most of the software in question was written to support the administration. There is no existing closed source nor open source software as such, only software ordered by public sector and delivered by private sector under a license that guarantees vendor lock-in. Which, obviously, is insane policy and must go.

The software is updated to contemporary standards and rewritten as people come and go about every 10-20 years. Mandating it to be open source makes it simpler for new vendor to take over in those 10 years. And it might provide other benefits such as some degree of code reuse.

As for the foundational software, there usually is a regional partner of Canonical, SUSE, Red Hat, Microsoft and so on who re-sells the licenses and provides part of the support.

Re: Switzerland Makes Open Source Software Mandatory for Public Sector

#49

Post by Timshel »

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #37
Rinzler89 wrote: post #2

Should be an EU wide mandate at this point, as it's mostly pros with little cons. Since the options are 1), keep spending EU taxpayer money to boost Microsoft's and other US big-tech market cap, or 2), spend EU taxpayer money on FOSS and local companies implementing and maintaining that FOSS for local infrastructure, then the correct choice seems obvious to me. The only cons are the short term costs, teething issues…

Isn't the Linux/GNU philosophy "Use the best tool for the job". Making OSS always a choice is good, but it is definitely not always the best tool for the job.

Even if it's not the best today the question is for tomorrow.

With proper funding you can hope open-source will become better and hopefully if more actors join the cost might even become lower.

Of-course you can continue to enrich the likes of Microsoft today because they are "better" but even not considering the cost with the current trends in Microsoft (and others) products you might still end-up with something worse and another expensive bill to pay to try to leave ...

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