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Open source AI is the path forward

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Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#41

Post by causal »

the8thbit wrote: post #12

"Eventually though, open source Linux gained popularity – initially because it allowed developers to modify its code however they wanted ..." I find the language around "open source AI" to be confusing. With "open source" there's usually "source" to open, right? As in, there is human legible code that can be read and modified by the user? If so, then how can current ML models be open source? They're very large matric…

"Open weights" is a more appropriate term but I'll point out that these weights are also largely inscrutable to the people with the code that trained it. And for licensing reasons, the datasets may not be possible to share.

There is still a lot of modifying you can do with a set of weights, and they make great foundations for new stuff, but yeah we may never see a competitive model that's 100% buildable at home.

Edit: mkolodny points out that the model code is shared (under llama license at least), which is really all you need to run training https://github.com/meta-llama/llama3/blob/main/llama/model.p...

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#42

Post by OpenComment »

kart23 wrote: post #5

> This is how we’ve managed security on our social networks – our more robust AI systems identify and stop threats from less sophisticated actors who often use smaller scale AI systems. Ok, first of all, has this really worked? AI moderators still can't capture the mass of obvious spam/bots on all their platforms, threads included. Second, AI detection doesn't work, and with how much better the systems are getting, i…

Interesting quotes. Less sophisticated actors just means humans who already write in 2020 what the NYT wrote in early 2022 to prepare for Biden's State Of The Union 180° policy reversals (manufacturing consent).

FB was notorious for censorship. Anyway, what is with the "actions/actors" terminology? This is straightforward totalitarian language.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#43

Post by rvnx »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
CardenB wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doubtful that GPUs purchased today would be in use for a similar time scale. Govt investment would also drive the cost of GPUs up a great deal. Not sure why a publicly accessible GPU cluster would be a better solution than the current system of research grants.

> Doubtful that GPUs purchased today would be in use for a similar time scale Totally agree. That doesn't mean it can't generate massive ROI. > Govt investment would also drive the cost of GPUs up a great deal Difficult to say this ex ante . On its own, yes. But it would displace some demand. And it could help boost chip production in the long run. > Not sure why a publicly accessible GPU cluster would be a better so…

It would be better that the government removes IP on such technology for public use, like drugs got generics.

This way the government pays 2'500 USD per card, not 40'000 USD or whatever absurd.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#45

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rvnx wrote: post #43
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Doubtful that GPUs purchased today would be in use for a similar time scale Totally agree. That doesn't mean it can't generate massive ROI. > Govt investment would also drive the cost of GPUs up a great deal Difficult to say this ex ante . On its own, yes. But it would displace some demand. And it could help boost chip production in the long run. > Not sure why a publicly accessible GPU cluster would be a better so…

It would be better that the government removes IP on such technology for public use, like drugs got generics. This way the government pays 2'500 USD per card, not 40'000 USD or whatever absurd.

> better that the government removes IP on such technology for public use, like drugs got generics

You want to punish NVIDIA for calling its shots correctly? You don't see the many ways that backfires?

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#46

Post by mvkel »

It's a real shame that we're still calling Llama "open source" when at best it's "open weights."

Not that anyone would go buy 100,000 H100s to train their own Llama, but words matter. Definitions matter.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#47

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

“The Heavy Press Program was a Cold War-era program of the United States Air Force to build the largest forging presses and extrusion presses in the world.” This ”program began in 1944 and concluded in 1957 after construction of four forging presses and six extruders, at an overall cost of $279 million. Six of them are still in operation today, manufacturing structural parts for military and commercial aircraft” [1].…

[deleted]

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#48

Post by light_hue_1 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

“The Heavy Press Program was a Cold War-era program of the United States Air Force to build the largest forging presses and extrusion presses in the world.” This ”program began in 1944 and concluded in 1957 after construction of four forging presses and six extruders, at an overall cost of $279 million. Six of them are still in operation today, manufacturing structural parts for military and commercial aircraft” [1].…

The problem is that any public cluster would be outdated in 2 years. At the same time, GPUs are massively overpriced. Nvidia's profit margins on the H100 are crazy.

Until we get cheaper cards that stand the test of time, building a public cluster is just a waste of money. There are far better ways to spend $1b in research dollars.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#49

Post by mesebrec »

nuz wrote: post #33

Everyone complaining about not having data access: Remember that without meta you would have openai and anthropic and that's it. I'm really thankful they're releasing this, and the reason they can't release the data is obvious.

Without Meta, you would still have Mistral, Silo AI, and the many other companies and labs producing much more open models with similar performance.
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