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Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

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Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#41

Post by rat9988 »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #30
blackbear_ wrote: post #11

Using salaries in Italy, Spain, and Hungary as means of comparison and pretending they are be representative of the "European market" reeks of dishonesty. Salaries in Germany, France and UK for those same roles are 2x or sometimes 3x higher than those mentioned in the article. This is certainly a factor for migration within Europe

> Salaries in Germany, France and UK for those same roles are 2x or sometimes 3x higher than those mentioned in the article. Taxation. At 2x or 3x in France you'd already be at 41% income tax bracket. Then 45%. And of course a country like France doesn't just tax income: it taxes everything, to death. You can be making 2x that of someone in Spain, if you pay 41% on that additional money, suddenly it doesn't really li…

> France is however a net importer of underqualified people, many of whom do not find any work.

Any numbers on the visa for underqualified people? I'd be surprised if this statmeent is even remotely true for legal immigration.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#42

Post by nxm »

cooolbear wrote: post #9
decafninja wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Frankly speaking, European healthcare does not seem that attractive to me versus decent to good employer backed American insurance. I’d rather have a (often significantly) bigger US salary. If there is a healthcare system that I’m envious of, it’s those of some East Asian countries. I know of some Asian-Americans in the US that do medical tourism to Asia despite having company insurance. Ends up being not only less e…

Aside from the usury of US healthcare, even with insurance from your employer, dealing with the healthcare in Canada is a dream to the US. You might have to wait to see a doctor (most people probably still have to wait in the US if you're lucky enough to get treatment), but there's essentially no fight with layers and layers of occult insurance for anything you get a referral from a doctor for. No surprise or hidden…

"most people probably still have to wait in the US if you're lucky enough to get treatment" This is really not the case. Over 92% of Americans have health coverage. I can also see practically any specialist next week....

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#43

Post by acdha »

constantcrying wrote: post #13
fwsgonzo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to disagree, but have you seen abroad? Seems like outside Europe you're at a constant one health crisis away from homelessness. Is that even an exaggeration at this point? https://i.redd.it/e2u2h3la7e1b1.jpg

I think you are completely delusional about the US. They have healthcare as well, you know, they just pay it from their paycheck and it isn't deducted from their salary. >homelessness In Germany the state guarantees you housing. Yet it has a far bigger homelessness problem than the US.

> They have healthcare as well, you know, they just pay it from their paycheck and it isn't deducted from their salary.

This usually cancels out the lower tax rates, and it has some key drawbacks: if anything interferes with your ability to stay employed, you lose coverage completely and have to hope that you’ll eventually qualify for public assistance, which can take quite a long time and will likely force you to find new providers, potentially with substantial travel requirements. The costs are 2-3 times higher, too, and medical expenses are a leading cause of bankruptcy.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#44

Post by dexwiz »

Question for European workers: Do you feel that social services help close some of that gap in pay? Raising a kid in the USA has become massively expensive. Health care costs, education costs, child care costs means parents can easily spent 50-100k a year on children alone. My partner wants to move to the Netherlands, but it would mean a massive pay cut for me long term. Their argument is that children will be cheaper, but I’m dubious on if the offset will be enough.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#45

Post by cherryteastain »

culopatin wrote: post #19
cherryteastain wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

London is competitive with tier 2 US cities (i.e. not SF/NYC/Seattle). Switzerland is competitive even with Tier 1 US cities. COL and taxes are higher though.

So it’s not competitive if taxes are higher and COL is higher. What one cares about is the final income in pocket and purchasing power. I don’t really care if my salary says “1 million” if I keep 50k of that, I only care about the final number unless there is some tax loophole one can exercise like pre tax deductions, but still…

Lifestyle is different. For example, you don't need a car in London, that's an easy 5-10k in savings per year.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#46

Post by j7ake »

dexwiz wrote: post #44

Question for European workers: Do you feel that social services help close some of that gap in pay? Raising a kid in the USA has become massively expensive. Health care costs, education costs, child care costs means parents can easily spent 50-100k a year on children alone. My partner wants to move to the Netherlands, but it would mean a massive pay cut for me long term. Their argument is that children will be cheape…

If you want more than 2 kids it’s rarely feasible in USA, but not an issue for Europe.

No kids, USA hands down.

One kid, comparable.

Two kids, Europe looks better but USA is still possible.

Three kids, you need free childcare somewhere to make it work.

Remember that it is 50 to 100k in after expenses, so at highest tax bracket you need to make almost double that to pay for childcare.

Finally, work culture in Europe is way more relaxed and stable, so you won’t have to worry about missing out on your children’s lives because of work.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#47

Post by m463 »

constantcrying wrote: post #12

Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, eve…

I thought this idea was folks moved to saudi arabia, lived apart from the general population, and left later with basically all their salaries banked.

Of course that's the life plan for most folks who move for work.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#48

Post by ilrwbwrkhv »

constantcrying wrote: post #12

Why would you move to Saudi Arabia if you can move to the US? Certainly if I had any inclination to move my target would be the US, high salaries, low taxes, wide range of companies, can choose climate/geography and even political leaning of area, etc. I have been to Dubai, it was one of the worst places I have ever been to. Extremely unpleasant climate, revolting atmosphere of completely incoherent architecture, eve…

Tax free income. Live there for 7 years. Retire.

Re: Low salary likely to cause exodus of European tech talent

#50

Post by wkat4242 »

I don't think so. I live in a low-wage country in Europe (Spain) and I moved here because quality of life is so much better. Holland is overcrowded, overregulated, people are very materialistic and don't enjoy life as much. And on top of it they now have an extreme-right government I want nothing to do with.

Here in Spain healthcare is still worry-free and included in my taxes. People live life at a slower pace and enjoy it more. I don't need a car because public transport is much better than it was even in Amsterdam. 20 bucks a month covers all my travel needs. I make probably half of what I'd make in Holland but these things are so much more important. Besides, cost of living is so much cheaper here too. Just seeing prices in the supermarket in Holland makes me roll my eyes.

Not everyone puts money above everything and especially that's what I see in other EU expats too. We just want enough to live well. It's mainly the US expats here that are always chasing the extra few percent, job-hopping etc. They always have that drive to be #1. Nice for them but it's a bit exhausting too. Way too much so for me. Most of my US friends have moved to the better paying EU countries as a result.

I'm also very progressive/LGBTQ+-friendly and I would never ever even consider visiting Saudi Arabia for work. I would literally refuse. Let alone consider living there. Even if I could make 10x my wage lol. Same with Dubai. No chance. What would I do there all day? Sit in my fancy apartment watching international TV?

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