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Vision language models are blind

vlmsareblind.github.io

41–50 of 202 posts

Re: Vision language models are blind

#41

This could easily be fixed with training and fine tuning. Simply generate 100,000 examples or so, and train with ground truth until however long you want and its a solved problem.

Ok, but most of the data is just captions for images. You're going to have to invest some time into building this dataset at your own expense.

Re: Vision language models are blind

#42

Some of these samples are shocking. How do these models answer chart-based questions, I mean when they can't even count the intersections between two lines?

The dataset most likely contains chart descriptions that describe the raw data, but not the visual interactions of the individual pixels.

Re: Vision language models are blind

#43
post #9
post #7

Wow, that is embarrassingly bad performance for current SOTA models (GPT-4o, Gemini-1.5 Pro, Sonnet-3, Sonnet-3.5), which are advertised and sold as being able to understand images, e.g., for guiding the blind or tutoring children in geometry! The tasks at which they fail are ridiculously simple for human beings, including, for example: * counting the number of times two lines intersect; * detecting whether two circl…

I don't see how this is "embarrassing" in the slightest. These models are not human brains, and the fact that people equate them with human brains is an embarrassing failure of the humans more than anything about the models. It's entirely unsurprising that there are numerous cases that these models can't handle that are "obvious to humans." Machine learning has had this property since its invention and it's a classic…

You'd expect them to be trained on simple geometry since you can create arbitrarily large synthetic training set for that.

Re: Vision language models are blind

#44
post #24

I've been generally frustrated at the lack of analysis of vision LLMs generally. They're clearly a very exciting category of technology, and a pretty recent one - they only got good last October with GPT-4 Vision, but since then we've had more vision models from Anthropic and Google Gemini. There's so much more information about there about text prompting compared to image prompting. I feel starved for useful informa…

Anthropic have some interesting cookbook examples that provide advice on using their multimodal models here: https://github.com/anthropics/anthropic-cookbook/tree/main/m...

I've assembled a bunch more notes here: https://simonwillison.net/tags/vision-llms/

Re: Vision language models are blind

#45
Speaking as someone with only a tenuous grasp of how VLMs work, this naïvely feels like a place where the "embodiement" folks might have a point: Humans have the ability to "refine" their perception of an image iteratively, focusing in on areas of interest, while VLMs have to process the entire image at the same level of fidelity.

I'm curious if there'd be a way to emulate this (have the visual tokens be low fidelity at first, but allow the VLM to emit tokens that correspond to "focusing" on a region of the image with greater resolution). I'm not sure if/how it's possible to performantly train a model with "interactive" data like that, though

Re: Vision language models are blind

#47

Entertaining, but I think the conclusion is way off. > their vision is, at best, like that of a person with myopia seeing fine details as blurry is a crazy thing to write in an abstract. Did they try to probe that hypothesis at all? I could (well actually I can't) share some examples from my job of GPT-4v doing some pretty difficult fine-grained visual tasks that invalidate this. Personally, I rate this paper [1], wh…

> their vision is, at best, like that of a person with myopia seeing fine details as blurry

It's not that far from reality, most models sees images in very low resolution/limited colors, so not so far from this description

Re: Vision language models are blind

#48
Are the "random-baseline accuracy" numbers correct?

In the "Two circles" test, do they really have 50% chance of overlapping? I think this comes from "Distances between circle perimeters: -0.15 to 0.5 times the diameter" but doesn't say the distribution they use.

Re: Vision language models are blind

#49
One use-case I always try is to have an AI try to read a school calendar image where days off are or days of interest are highlighted using a legend. i.e.: days with a square, circle or triangle or different color, etc.

When asking days for specific days of interest for the school year, AIs always struggle. They get some days right but forget some or fabulate new days. They fare a bit better if you remove some of the noise and give them only a picture of a month but even then, it's unreliable.

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