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DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

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Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#41

Post by baby_souffle »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #35
rdl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume price would be the major factor. Also, as someone who knows nothing about e-bikes, but who knows "DJI makes good cheap drones and gimbals", they'd be pretty high on my list of "probably makes an ok product" without searching.

I'd trust their intent to create a good product (rather than aiming for something that will look good enough for just long enough to get you to buy it), their general manufacturing, and even engineering, but with the forces and water/dirt involved, I am not confident they'll succeed in the first few iterations.

> but with the forces and water/dirt involved, I am not confident they'll succeed in the first few iterations.

Air isn't perfectly clean or dry, either. I would bet that DJI has some clue as to how to protect the most sensitive components in a way that can survive _lots_ of vibration.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#42

Post by glohbalrob »

plorkyeran wrote: post #11
sandworm101 wrote: post #2

20kg? Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes. I think this is just another attempt to break e-bikes away from being a distinct product, to keep the "e" an optional upgrade to whatever bike the customer already owns.

Approximately no one is paying thousands of dollars to shave grams off an eMTB. There is a small but visible group of people doing that for road bikes and a much smaller group of people doing that for non-electric mountain bikes. There's probably some weirdo out there doing it for an electric mountain bike but they're probably more of a "decorative expensive bike purchaser" than an "actual trail rider".

There are carbon fiber E-bikes, perhaps it’s “few” but there are people paying to have a more light bike since the extra weight up and down hill isn’t as fun

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#43

Post by m463 »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #30

This is great for the e-bike sector - more competition, more innovation, more options. There is of course a bunch of poo-pooing in an HN thread. The problem with the e-bike sector is a misalignment: what people say they want: a cargo bike, a fixie, a mountain bike, a folding bike, a... etc. what people actually want: a moped that is emotionally and aesthetically a bicycle The audience for a moped that is emotionally…

  >  what people say they want: a cargo bike, a fixie, a mountain bike, a folding bike, a... etc.
  >  what people actually want: a moped that is emotionally and aesthetically a bicycle
what people get: must set up an account in china to enable your bike for riding, letting DJI map the rest of the world where the drones can't fly.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#44

Post by Aurornis »

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

20kg? Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes. I think this is just another attempt to break e-bikes away from being a distinct product, to keep the "e" an optional upgrade to whatever bike the customer already owns.

> Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes.

Spending hundreds to thousands to shave "grams" is not a thing among real trail riders.

Actual trail riders are generally pretty smart about the tradeoffs. If they see a product that is "hundreds to thousands" more expensive and brings no benefit other than shaving a few grams, nobody will buy it.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#45

Post by Aurornis »

bagels wrote: post #17
metadat wrote: post #13

> The integrated DJI Avinox electric power assist system leverages DJI's cutting-edge technologies in both software and hardware design, offering 850 W of peak power (250 W nominal power) in an ultra-light body of 19.2kg This is most unimpressive. I have an 2019 3000w LunaCycle e-mountain bike (based on the Giant Anthem) with similar drive system weight specs, which includes the ginormous 40ah battery. Why can't DJI…

Is that a legal bike in your jurisdiction? In California you're riding an unregistered moped, illegally, most likely. I suspect DJI is aiming for legal bikes that established bicycle manufacturers can sell.

Definitely not legal.

These are popular with a subset of DIY builders because the laws aren't really enforced, so they can get a small electric motorcycle that passes as an e-bike while not adhering to the requirements for a vehicle that powerful.

Some will try to claim that if you set the bike to the lowest power then it's legal, but of course they'll quietly switch the power to whatever they want when riding.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#46

Post by tln »

metadat wrote: post #13

> The integrated DJI Avinox electric power assist system leverages DJI's cutting-edge technologies in both software and hardware design, offering 850 W of peak power (250 W nominal power) in an ultra-light body of 19.2kg This is most unimpressive. I have an 2019 3000w LunaCycle e-mountain bike (based on the Giant Anthem) with similar drive system weight specs, which includes the ginormous 40ah battery. Why can't DJI…

Your LunaCycle probably weighs > 70lbs!

The Amflow PL bikes lists in the press release as 43lb which isn't "revolutionary" but 850W and 600Wh battery is way more than the other really light MTBs. And those other ones are really expensive.

I'm looking forward to seeing price. I wish they had shared some specs regarding noise, it sounds like they have put some effort into optimizing that as well.

I like my 1500W LunaCycle, but would eagerly trade for a bike that weighs 2/3 as much and is a bit quieter

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#47

Post by m463 »

sandworm101 wrote: post #2

20kg? Actual trail riders spend hundreds to thousands shaving grams off their bikes. I think this is just another attempt to break e-bikes away from being a distinct product, to keep the "e" an optional upgrade to whatever bike the customer already owns.

I've always laughed at that. Part weight in grams is just a marketing gimmick to differentiate products to charge higher prices.

Even tour de france folks have a minimum weight they can't go under, and they frequently weigh several kg over anyway.

For casual riders, you could save several $k equivalent on your super-lightweight-bike by just losing a few pounds or trading jeans for shorts.

personally, I would love if all the bike lights had a standardized bus and connector so headlight/taillight/etc could power off the bike battery. (I know some bikes have an output but think more like a standard USB connector and maybe a dashboard setting, not running bare wires under the hood and using a proprietary app to set things up)

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#48

Post by 1attice »

newsclues wrote: post #27
demondemidi wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actual trail riders mostly do not do this. Source: worked at a bike store. People with a lot of money that treat their bike as something to optimize and not something to ride do this. I'm not saying its wrong, its just another way of being a bike enthusiast, but this type rarely overlaps with serious riders. Training improves performance, not $3000 wheels that shave off 50 grams.

Other than pros most of the people spending lots of money to shave weight would be better served losing weight from their belly over the bike, but that’s harder to solve with a credit card.

Again, semaglutide solves this pretty well with a credit card; not even that if you have The Good Coverage.

Reorient yourself, the frame has shifted.

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#49

Post by mping »

Aurornis wrote: post #33
TaylorAlexander wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Legal limit in USA is 750 watts, legal limit in UK is 250 watts. Competition on power output is illegal. I have a BBSHD which can be trivially programmed to 1500w output (likely the same as your Luna cycle without a custom controller) and it’s great. It is widely regarded that there is no enforcement of power limits, but manufacturers can’t really advertise illegal power limits for sale. Many high power ebike enthusi…

> Many high power ebike enthusiasts (for example “High Voltage DIY Electric Bikes” channel on YouTube) argue that these low legal power limits actually make e-bikes less safe, as you need a good 2-3kw to actually ride with the flow of traffic. At US or worse UK power limits, you don’t get enough of a boost for that and you’re more likely to get hit from behind. Those "High power ebike enthusiasts" are actually "small…

Well put. I wouldn't want to ride with my kids with a 3000w bike breezing pass me in the bike lane at 45km/h

Re: DJI announces an electric mountain bike drive system

#50

Post by metadat »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #38
metadat wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point is, if DJI's system is lower power, shouldn't it be significantly lighter?

Not necessarily. Large portions of the casual bike segment don’t care about weight - other than lifting it on and off their bike rack.

It seems quite shortsighted, weight makes a huge difference. My brother recently bought some 75-80lb steel-framed e-bike with small diamerer wide wheels, and couldn't even make it 30 miles with pedal-assist before it died. The last 10 miles his speed plummeted from 15-17mph to 4-6mph at most, and this is for a very strong (but out of bicycling shape) guy. On unpowered bikes he is much faster than me, and I'm not a slouch.

I tried riding the steel thing with no battery and it was not pleasant at all. Compare that to my LunaCycle, even at 50lbs total it's not that bad to ride with no power.

Is it mostly clueless people (like my bro) falling for "It has a battery so heavy bike weight will not matter"?

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