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Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

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Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#41

Post by lupatus »

zt wrote: post #39
confluence wrote: post #35

You have 2 sailors - one weak, the other great. They have the same wind behind their sails. Who will finish the race first? The great sailor, of course. Now, same experiment, except the weak sailor now gets a 1000 km/hr wind and the great one gets a 1 km/hr wind (hypothetically of course). Who wins the race now? The weak sailor. Now, who was responsible for winning the race? Was it the wind or was it the person who c…

I always find it interesting when a contemporary argument boils down to old ones. (This isn't a criticism). Your argument against the Great Man Theory is best expressed in War and Peace, where Tolstoy goes on long discussions on the imaginary significance of great men, including obviously Napoleon. Or, as Isaiah Berlin says in the "Hedgehog and the Fox: An Essay on Tolstoy's View of History," Tolstoy perceived a "cen…

After the tide refused to follow his orders and stop rising, Cnut hung up his crown.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cnut_the_Great#Ruler_of_the_wav...

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#42

Post by malux85 »

donohoe wrote: post #37

PayPal’s founding team was six people. ... Four of them built bombs when they were in high school. Surprised no one picked up on this (not that I could see anyway). When we hear about a kid who got caught building a bomb these days we never think Wow - they'll make a great entrepreneur some day! Maybe we should learn not to judge children too harshly?

Expanding on what you're saying, I think it's important to get people to curb the knee-jerk soccer mom reaction "OMG MY CHILD IS MAKING BOMBS" and find out if the child is making bombs because they have a serious psychological problem, or they're interested in science.

One child needs a therapist, one child needs a chemistry book.

Speaking as the child who made bombs, and got the chemistry book :)

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#43

Post by SkyMarshal »

lla0ajj wrote: post #11
SkyMarshal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love these ~30 minute old accounts with 7 karma howling at the moon that the neither the first successful online payments company, nor the most successful social network in Internet history, nor a ~$100billion/year big data company are 'innovative'. They may not be nuclear fusion or the perpetual motion machine, but they're more innovative than 99% of what everyone else will ever do. Your point about wealth buy…

"$100billion/year big data company"? That's like saying a "$100billion/year products company". Incredibly vague. What's the product? Yes, it does make a difference. I remind you that Thiel himself pulled an iPhone from his pocket and said "This is innovation?" If we are going to measure innovation by income produced, then we can come up with all sorts of interesting examples of "innovation".

Oops, meant $100 million/year company. Obviously they're not a $100b/y.

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#44

Post by [deleted] »

lla0ajj wrote: post #11
SkyMarshal wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gotta love these ~30 minute old accounts with 7 karma howling at the moon that the neither the first successful online payments company, nor the most successful social network in Internet history, nor a ~$100billion/year big data company are 'innovative'. They may not be nuclear fusion or the perpetual motion machine, but they're more innovative than 99% of what everyone else will ever do. Your point about wealth buy…

"$100billion/year big data company"? That's like saying a "$100billion/year products company". Incredibly vague. What's the product? Yes, it does make a difference. I remind you that Thiel himself pulled an iPhone from his pocket and said "This is innovation?" If we are going to measure innovation by income produced, then we can come up with all sorts of interesting examples of "innovation".

[deleted]

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#45

Post by larrys »

"Anecdotally, we can apply this framework to any founder figure."

"Any" founder?

Yet another attempt to say something profound and reverse engineer success based on cherry picking examples.

Wondering when we will read the big study of everyone who has succeeded and failed in the world to be able to see to what extent any of this matters.

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#46

Post by confluence »

zt wrote: post #39
confluence wrote: post #35

You have 2 sailors - one weak, the other great. They have the same wind behind their sails. Who will finish the race first? The great sailor, of course. Now, same experiment, except the weak sailor now gets a 1000 km/hr wind and the great one gets a 1 km/hr wind (hypothetically of course). Who wins the race now? The weak sailor. Now, who was responsible for winning the race? Was it the wind or was it the person who c…

I always find it interesting when a contemporary argument boils down to old ones. (This isn't a criticism). Your argument against the Great Man Theory is best expressed in War and Peace, where Tolstoy goes on long discussions on the imaginary significance of great men, including obviously Napoleon. Or, as Isaiah Berlin says in the "Hedgehog and the Fox: An Essay on Tolstoy's View of History," Tolstoy perceived a "cen…

Oh man and here I was thinking I was being slightly original with my little parable quoting Shakespeare :D.

Happy to be a modern rehash of Tolstoy's thoughts - I still haven't gotten around to reading War and Peace so I had no idea.

Everything is a remix is it not?

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#47

Post by cubancigar11 »

ktizo wrote: post #13
cubancigar11 wrote: post #9

What a tripe! There are a lot of cultures where scapegoats were never present (India and China come to my mind). Polarizing figures with leadership qualities polarize the people around them. That doesn't make them founders! They are two different sets which intersect sometimes. And Bill Gates is NOT being forced to do charity, especially not by those who criticized him before. Most people in third world countries ido…

India never had scapegoats? Really? What about the caste system then? And if you don't think China did, then go read the Book of Lord Shang.

Caste system - I knew it will be the first reply.

So why don't YOU tell me how caste system was a scapegoat? How come a system of stratification be about an individual leader?

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#48

Post by cubancigar11 »

jfarmer wrote: post #22
cubancigar11 wrote: post #9

What a tripe! There are a lot of cultures where scapegoats were never present (India and China come to my mind). Polarizing figures with leadership qualities polarize the people around them. That doesn't make them founders! They are two different sets which intersect sometimes. And Bill Gates is NOT being forced to do charity, especially not by those who criticized him before. Most people in third world countries ido…

Er...Gandhi typifies almost everything Thiel is talking about. Extreme outsider to extreme insider to victim.

How about Buddha? At no point was he an outcast or object of hatred for normal people. He was at every point supported in his quest.

More I think about it, more I realize that it is western culture of 'our way or the highway' that Theil is talking about. Point to note that the killer(s) of Gandhi were a fan of Nazis.

Re: Peter Thiel on "Founder as Victim, Founder as God"

#49

Post by ktizo »

cubancigar11 wrote: post #47
ktizo wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India never had scapegoats? Really? What about the caste system then? And if you don't think China did, then go read the Book of Lord Shang.

Caste system - I knew it will be the first reply. So why don't YOU tell me how caste system was a scapegoat? How come a system of stratification be about an individual leader?

You can scapegoat groups or individuals, the word itself applies in both contexts. If you want to find examples of scapegoating of individuals in India, then that isn't particularly hard either. Not that India is special in this regard.
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