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Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

threema.ch

41–50 of 341 posts

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#41
>If you’re a EU citizen, please consider contacting your government’s representative today, asking them to vote against Chat Control.

Are there any studies on the effectiveness of this? To me it always read like a joke. The only way I can imagine this going is.

>Good day Mr. Rep I'm really really worried about x legistlation for reasons y and z.

>Sure buddy. hangs up

>Votes like his "donors" asked him to anyways.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#42
post #6

I find it somewhat disturbing that this sort of thing is not considered a career killer for politicians.

Almost nothing is. Local politicians fail upwards to the EU (at least in Germany) or some private job, if they fail at all. Most of the time, you can do what you want, and the voters don’t care.

Those not yet brain washed voters do actually care.

But then there are the „Wahlhelfer“ who openly proud themselves in Twitter to invalidate votes for parties they disagree with.

This is democracy?

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. It only works because they claim it's for the protection of children.

They ride the wave and find always some excuse. It was fighting the terrorists until a few years ago, now it's children again. Next year could be to help the climate or protect lbtgqi++ rights.

> Next year could be to help the climate or protect lbtgqi++ rights.

Unlikely—this would actually benefit people.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#45

I find it somewhat disturbing that this sort of thing is not considered a career killer for politicians.

My pet made-up theory is that careers aren't really killable like that any more, since Cambridge Analytica.

Before CA, the received wisdom was that if you do something bad, you will need to resign before you are pushed for causing damage to the organisation reputation and therefore electability. This was perhaps borne out with enormous error bars by focus groups and polls asking "would you still vote for X in case of Y".

After CA, and in particular the live social media sentiment data that was gathered around the debacle of the UK Brexit referendum, the data showed that actually egregious misbehaviour did not materially affect sentiments, and perhaps even appealed to a larger proportion of people than believed. For example, the famous "shy Tory" might not show up well in a focus group, but it all hangs out after analysing Facebook's data.

With that data in hand, people started doing things that they would never have dared to do before, knowing that it won't actually harm them, at least in the short run (since this data only shows short term effects).

And that's how we go from resigning over fairly small gaffes to the "screw it, what you gonna do, we know you won't vote for the others, we've seen your data" of today.

Not long ago, calling a woman a bigot on a hot mic was a dreadful PR disaster. Now, you can physically snatch a journalist's phone and it barely registers.

It does, however stack up over time with catastrophic final effects, much like chasing only quarterly figures or always postponing dealing with technical or real debt.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#46
The wording in the current draft seems to indicate that it applies to "providers of hosting services and providers of publicly available interpersonal communications services". So unless this includes ISPs, I wonder if that means a decentralized P2P service is not covered.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#47
There are exemptions in the document and this article also talks about it; it would be good to know what tools we can use (p2p chat etc) that are exempt from this. I guess most people will blindly accept and won't care, but at least people can move if they do care (and possibly convince others).

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#48
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and the voters don’t care." Then why did so many vote extremist anti EU? There just has been EU election in germany and the nationalist gained a lot. And none of the big parties otherwise said a clear no to that, so what could I do, except vote a small party against that, but too small to really do something? Voters care. But they see often no point in voting anymore.

That's precisely the thing. Whenever EU does something people don't like, they hate EU, not the council members who voted for it.

Because it is exactly the EU governance that lacks democratic representation, enabling unfavoured politicians to remain in significant power. You can only elect MEPs (via party lists) locally. The majority of legalislation is drafted by the technocratic European Commission and legislation is mostly passed through parlaiment unchanged from there.

There are many nationally disgraced politicians seating in the EP, EC or council. Only the ones in the EP were electible.

The people have correctly identified that a massive supranational unaccountable government is the problem, enabling corrupt people to keep ruling which undermines the core functioning of representative democracy.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#49
post #37
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"and the voters don’t care." Then why did so many vote extremist anti EU? There just has been EU election in germany and the nationalist gained a lot. And none of the big parties otherwise said a clear no to that, so what could I do, except vote a small party against that, but too small to really do something? Voters care. But they see often no point in voting anymore.

> Then why did so many vote extremist anti EU? Is the EU really a benefit to the people? Or is it a shit pool full of scum bags providing quite some damage to societies?

All things considered I think that’s a strong yes. Open borders, free trade, technological collaboration, and shared health, industry and consumer regulations help accelerate economic development. Can’t throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped – Now

#50
post #41

>If you’re a EU citizen, please consider contacting your government’s representative today, asking them to vote against Chat Control. Are there any studies on the effectiveness of this? To me it always read like a joke. The only way I can imagine this going is. >Good day Mr. Rep I'm really really worried about x legistlation for reasons y and z. >Sure buddy. hangs up >Votes like his "donors" asked him to anyways.

Exactly this. Once you read up about donors, or keys, or whatever word your country uses, it becomes obvious that it's all pretty straight forward
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