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Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

41–50 of 179 posts

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if it started as a fabrication it was pretty quickly adopted by the crowd you’d expect to be using such a hand gesture. IOW “Teehee I’m doing a hand gesture everyone thinks is racist but its not because its an internet joke” isnt the own you think it is.

[flagged]

> this is and remains an extremely common hand gesture routinely used by people with no racist overtones

Yep, agreed

> no, this has not escaped containment in to the real world

> Trolls continue to use it

?

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#43
post #35

From the publication: “The speculation that the hand gesture herein presented is a freemasonry’s conveyed code is fascinating, but it is hard to accept.” This sentence concluded a very short paragraph that apparently aimed to explore whether the hand sign could have a Masonic meaning. But instead of giving any explanation for their conclusion, the authors merely postulate the above without any given reasoning. I’m su…

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

> 32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of.

Would you actually be able to say it if they were?

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#44
post #35

From the publication: “The speculation that the hand gesture herein presented is a freemasonry’s conveyed code is fascinating, but it is hard to accept.” This sentence concluded a very short paragraph that apparently aimed to explore whether the hand sign could have a Masonic meaning. But instead of giving any explanation for their conclusion, the authors merely postulate the above without any given reasoning. I’m su…

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

> presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not going to be immortalized in a painting.

I wouldn't bet on it. Performative secrecy is very common in esotericism.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#45
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

> 32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. Would you actually be able to say it if they were?

The other guard always lies.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#46
Well, faces and hands are still considered important. There’s a saying that if you get the face and hands right, you can get away with anything.

Also common advice for artists is to group the middle and ring fingers together. It just looks better and they kind of tend to do so naturally anyway.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#47

From the publication: “The speculation that the hand gesture herein presented is a freemasonry’s conveyed code is fascinating, but it is hard to accept.” This sentence concluded a very short paragraph that apparently aimed to explore whether the hand sign could have a Masonic meaning. But instead of giving any explanation for their conclusion, the authors merely postulate the above without any given reasoning. I’m su…

Having been involved in peer reviewed publishing before, I wonder if this was an afterthought prompted by a peer reviewer's comments on the paper. Perhaps they quickly added this point just to get it to pass review. Sloppy, if so, but I've seen similar (though not as blatant) things happen.

I mean the whole paper is sloppy here. They kind of are writing to a biomedical journal and then say "well, it's NOT biomedical..." as kind of a little brush-off? And then they go through a couple explanations they have heard and dismiss them without really going through the evidence. (I especially liked the sloppiness of self-contradiction, in one section they're like "well there are no Hebrew letters that work for this" which is wrong, you could make decent arguments for both shin and tsadeh -- but then almost immediately after they're like "well this could be an M or W, W can symbolically be the Hebrew letter Vav...")

And after cursorily dismissing them they just say "therefore, it's an aesthetic meme. This is just what perfect hands look like, sorry."

A hypothesis that was not considered, for example: 'We asked people at school to imagine that they were going to be sitting still for the next three hours on a stool, and to sit on it in a way that was perfectly relaxed. We then prompted them "remember, in old times you'd have had to sit here for three hours, really relax." Finally, we then picked up their left wrist, turned it, and placed it on their chests saying "great, now can you just hold this hand here," and took a photograph. In 30% of these photographs we also see, even without syndactyly, that the two fingers get forced together just by the process of having your wrist twisted by an artist and then the fingers having to conform to the contours of the chest.'

I don't know what that percentage is, but I'd be surprised if it were 0%, right?

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#49
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

> 32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. Would you actually be able to say it if they were?

I would just not comment, in that case.

Re: Secret Hand Gestures in Paintings (2019)

#50
post #44
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

32° Freemason here. The images and descriptions do not match any masonic hand positions I am aware of. However, there were numerous other fraternities and secret societies during that era, although they were typically gender-specific. Seeing both men and women using the same hand signals suggests these were likely common societal practices of the time. And since, presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not…

> presumably the hand positions are secret, they're not going to be immortalized in a painting. I wouldn't bet on it. Performative secrecy is very common in esotericism.

Touche. You are correct. In fact, a number of paintings of esoteric figures now come to mind where their hands are in a particular configuration.
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