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Parable of the Sofa

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Re: Parable of the Sofa

#41

Post by robocat »

MeImCounting wrote: post #15

Just gotta get some Gomer Bolstrood. In all honesty I have no desire for furniture not made by someone I know or alternately made by some New England craftsman who gets paid more than I do and either way I want furniture that will last at least the next hundred years. I have no desire for furniture that my grandchildren wont spend a couple days fighting over.

> furniture that my grandchildren wont spend a couple days fighting over.

Mayhap your grandpa said the same about his now worthless piano or car. In my experience grandchildren don't usually want their grandparent's furniture... That is why you can buy it so cheaply at the second hand shop. That expensive sofa ends up at the dump not the vintage store: nobody wants it.

If you want classic furniture then buy the best second hand stuff. Why bother getting it made?

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#42

Post by bunnie »

The bit about "lifestyle business" always being uttered in contempt resonated with me.

I always assumed it was just me being overly sensitive to folks expressing concern over my life choices, urging me to snap out of my "mid-life crisis" and do something "useful" like raise money and scale up, or "apply myself" at famous institutions with "real impact".

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#43

Post by bratwurst3000 »

lordnacho wrote: post #38
refulgentis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing is satisfying to write and even more satisfying to read and nod along to. But it's paper-thin histrionics. "an ad said I'd value something and I didn't" and "I didn't read the license agreement" are trans-mutated into "abuse" that should obviously be illegal, and somehow become grist for all sorts of grand invocations, GDP, capitalism, MBAs, North Korea... You're free to check what joins your sofa…

There's always someone who writes the rebuttal you're writing here. I used to do it all the time as well. It's always the same rebuttal, "why don't you just check this then", along with "well all the information is out there". In isolation, it is true. You could spend a day going out on the internet to try to learn what kinds of join your sofa might have. I suspect you would never even have considered the problem, an…

Crypto bros are like this. 100% behind the product . Most don’t even know how a database works or that crypto is that. It’s only magic words….

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#44

Post by refulgentis »

lordnacho wrote: post #38
refulgentis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing is satisfying to write and even more satisfying to read and nod along to. But it's paper-thin histrionics. "an ad said I'd value something and I didn't" and "I didn't read the license agreement" are trans-mutated into "abuse" that should obviously be illegal, and somehow become grist for all sorts of grand invocations, GDP, capitalism, MBAs, North Korea... You're free to check what joins your sofa…

There's always someone who writes the rebuttal you're writing here. I used to do it all the time as well. It's always the same rebuttal, "why don't you just check this then", along with "well all the information is out there". In isolation, it is true. You could spend a day going out on the internet to try to learn what kinds of join your sofa might have. I suspect you would never even have considered the problem, an…

> It's always the same rebuttal, "why don't you just check this then", along with "well all the information is out there".

What's is this thing you're always seeing attempting to be rebutted? I'd love to hear more specifics.

> I suspect you would never even have considered the problem, and that is a rather major problem.

I worked my butt off from a college dropout waiter to get to the point that I had enough money to care about this and specifically did. I'm glad I was able to afford a shitty sofa in the interim. You are mindreading and myopic.

> The fact is we're all dependent on people making the honest choices when they're offering us stuff, you can't check it all.

3rd try: when we come down from the castles in the air, what are we asking for here?

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#45

Post by refulgentis »

saagarjha wrote: post #40
refulgentis wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sort of thing is satisfying to write and even more satisfying to read and nod along to. But it's paper-thin histrionics. "an ad said I'd value something and I didn't" and "I didn't read the license agreement" are trans-mutated into "abuse" that should obviously be illegal, and somehow become grist for all sorts of grand invocations, GDP, capitalism, MBAs, North Korea... You're free to check what joins your sofa…

I have literally no idea what joins my sofa has. I own far too many things to check the seams and joints on everything I have ever bought.

There's a motte and bailey here.

Motte: "people tell me to go to North Korea for my idea that it should be illegal to make couches with the wrong joins, use license agreements, or air ads that don't match my eventual experience",

Bailey: "I don't know what a join is, and I shouldn't need to"

Again, I ask: What's actually being proposed here? If nothing, is this just white collar barroom conversation, via griping?

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#46

Post by refulgentis »

bratwurst3000 wrote: post #43
lordnacho wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always someone who writes the rebuttal you're writing here. I used to do it all the time as well. It's always the same rebuttal, "why don't you just check this then", along with "well all the information is out there". In isolation, it is true. You could spend a day going out on the internet to try to learn what kinds of join your sofa might have. I suspect you would never even have considered the problem, an…

Crypto bros are like this. 100% behind the product . Most don’t even know how a database works or that crypto is that. It’s only magic words….

Crypto bro? Databases? What?

Anyways, for the crowd, in another post, you say: "May I add, cheap shit will always win if most people don’t have the initial money to spend on quality. A 400€ dollar shitcouch seems better than no couch at all."

Sounds like you completely understand my point

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#47

Post by shswkna »

refulgentis wrote: post #32
lordnacho wrote: post #29

This is something that has bothered me for a while. When we're discussing capitalism, people seem to get it in their head that it's either what we have now, or you can fuck off to North Korea. How I would characterize my ideal economy is one where the feedback loop works: people can make reasonable guesses about what a product is, how long it will work for, and what its cost is. They can adjust their purchases accord…

This sort of thing is satisfying to write and even more satisfying to read and nod along to. But it's paper-thin histrionics. "an ad said I'd value something and I didn't" and "I didn't read the license agreement" are trans-mutated into "abuse" that should obviously be illegal, and somehow become grist for all sorts of grand invocations, GDP, capitalism, MBAs, North Korea... You're free to check what joins your sofa…

You are right, but the very need to do the hard work of informing yourself, to the point of becoming a semi expert in sofa construction and what to look for, reduces the value of what the sofa-seller is offering. The point of an economy where everyone specialises on what they are good at, is that you the buyer don’t need to become an expert. Its part of the value addition. This value addition mechanism is failing in your argument [because I need to become a semi expert first, i.e. this isn’t part of what I am buying]

The problem here is trust. The trust that the monetary amount I am paying is equivalent to the real value I am getting. And that our society accepts that it is a sound business model if this trust is broken.

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#48

Post by lordnacho »

refulgentis wrote: post #44
lordnacho wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's always someone who writes the rebuttal you're writing here. I used to do it all the time as well. It's always the same rebuttal, "why don't you just check this then", along with "well all the information is out there". In isolation, it is true. You could spend a day going out on the internet to try to learn what kinds of join your sofa might have. I suspect you would never even have considered the problem, an…

> It's always the same rebuttal, "why don't you just check this then", along with "well all the information is out there". What's is this thing you're always seeing attempting to be rebutted? I'd love to hear more specifics. > I suspect you would never even have considered the problem, and that is a rather major problem. I worked my butt off from a college dropout waiter to get to the point that I had enough money to…

What I'm saying is capitalism isn't working the way people say that it works, and the way people want it to work. Now obviously a lot of ink has been spilled about what exactly capitalism is, so you're not going to get a mathematically specific list of definitions that everyone agrees on.

But the main idea is that modern businesses are undermining the efficient allocation of resources.

> therefore something(?) should be illegal

What did I say should be made illegal?

> You are mindreading and focused on putting down the messenger.

No I'm not. Suspecting that you've never thought about sofa joins is very reasonable, you might be the only person I've ever communicated with who has ever done this. You feel put down because I think you're not a sofa expert?

> Why not discuss this amorphous idea that is always attempted to be rebutted and never can be?

If you want to discuss amorphous ideas you will need to accept they might have some merit. Not being able to put your finger on something can be challenging, but that doesn't mean there's nothing there.

> Again, when we come down from the castles in the air, what are we asking for here?

Is that a requirement? I have to have a demand? Sorry, but I'm writing a few thoughts from the comfort of my bed and expecting others to constructively contribute, like one does here.

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#49

Post by rPlayer6554 »

How is "modern capitalism" to blame? Modern capitalism allowed a small business to sell you the higher quality option, and you were able to direct your purchasing power to the product you wanted. If you convince more consumers to do the same (like you are) big brands will loose money and change. That's capitalism.

The best term I can come up with to describe the phenomenon you dislike is _modern consumerism_ (although not perfectly accurate). Many people now want more new stuff cheaper. That's what drives companies to produce things more cheaply.

Re: Parable of the Sofa

#50

Post by satisfice »

Hooray for lifestyle businesses!

I started my company in 1999 with my wife and I around the kitchen table. My vision: a consulting company that never told a lie to a client. With that philosophy and 25 years of work we have built the company into two people around the same kitchen table.

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