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Big data is dead (2023)

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Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#41
post #19
post #4

Overall, I agree with much of this post, but there are several caveats: 1) Mongo is a bad point of reference. The one lesson I've learned is that there is nothing Mongo does which postgresql doesn't do better. Big data solutions aren't nosql / mongo, but usually things like columnar databases, map/reduce, Cassandra, etc. 2) Plan for success 95% of businesses never become unicorns, but that's the goal for most (for th…

> 2) Plan for success 95% of businesses never become unicorns, but that's the goal for most (for the 5% which do). If you don't plan for it, you won't make it. That's exactly what every architecture astronaut everywhere says. In my experience it's completely untrue, and actually "planning for success" more often than not causes huge drags on productivity, and even more important for startups, on agility. Because peop…

The success planners almost always seem to be the same ones pushing everyone to "not overengineer". Uhhhh..

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#42
Big data was always a buzzword that was weirdly coopted by database people in a way which makes 0 sense. Of course there are vanishingly small number of use cases where we need fast random access to any possible record to look up.

However what ML systems and in particular LLMs rely on having access to millions (if not billions or trillions) of examples. The underlying infra of which is based on some of these tools.

Big Data isn't dead, just this weird idea that the tools and usecases around querying databases has been finally recognised as being mostly useless to most people. It is and always has been about training ML models.

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#43
post #33
post #8

This is not fully correct. Originally big data was defined by 3 dimensions: - Volume (mostly what the author talks about) [solved] - Velocity, how fast data is processed etc [solved, but expensive] - Variety [not solved] Big Data today is not: I don't have enough storage or compute. It is: I don't have enough cognitive capacity to integrate and make sense of it.

What do you mean by 'variety'?

not op, but I think they mean the data is complex, heterogeneous and noisy. You won't be able to extract meaning trivially from it, you need something to find the (hidden) meaning in the data.

So AI currently, probably ;)

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 95% of businesses never become unicorns, but that's the goal for most Is it really the general case or is it just a HN echo chamber meme? My pet peeve is that patterns used by companies that in theory could become global unicorns are mimicked by companies where 5000 paying customers would mean an immense success

HN is the worst echo chamber around. Obsessed with this "you must use PostgreSQL for every use case" nonsense. And that anyone who actually has unique data needs is simply doing it for their resume or are over-engineering.

> Obsessed with this "you must use PostgreSQL for every use case" nonsense.

Pg fans are certainly here asking "why not PG?". Yet so are fans of other DBs; like DuckDB, CouchDB, SQLite, etc.

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#46
post #32

When I was hiring data scientists for a previous job, my favorite tricky question was "what stack/architecture would you build" with the somewhat detailed requirements of "6 TiB of data" in sight. I was careful not to require overly complicated sums, I simply said it's MAX 6TiB I patiently listened to all the big query hadoop habla-blabla, even asked questions about the financials (hardware/software/license BOM) and…

I ask a similar question on screens. Almost no one gives a good answer. They describe elaborate architectures for data that fits in memory, handily.

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#47

Question for the Big Data folks: where do sampling and statistics fit into this, if at all? Unless you're summing to the penny, why would you ever need to aggregate a large volume of data (the population) rather than a small volume of data (a sample)? I'm not saying there isn't a reason. I just don't know what it is. Any thoughts from people who have genuine experience in this realm?

Sampling is almost always heavily used here, because it's Ace. However, if you need to produce row level predictions then you can't sample as you by definition need the role level data.

However you can aggregate user level info into just the features you need which will get you a looooonnnnggggg way.

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#48
The funny thing about "big data" was that it came with a perverse incentive to avoid even the most basic and obvious optimizations on the software level, because the hardware requirement was how you proved how badass you were.

Like: "Look, boss, I can compute all those averages for that report on just my laptop, by ingesting a SAMPLE of the data, rather than making those computations across the WHOLE dataset".

Boss: "What do you mean 'sample'? I just don't know what you're trying to imply with your mathmo engineeringy gobbledigook! Me having spent those millions on nothing can clearly not be it, right?"

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#49
I was a researcher at the Large Hadron Collider around the time “Big Data” became a thing. We had one of the use cases where analyzing all the data made sense, since it boiled down to frequentist statistics, the more data, the better. Yet even with a global network of supercomputers at our disposal, we funnily figured out that fast local storage was better than waiting for huge jobs to finish. So, surprise, surprise, every single grad student managed somehow to boil the relevant data for her analysis down to exactly 1-5 TB, without much loss in analysis flexibility. There must be like a law of convenience here, that rivals Amdahl’s scaling law.

Re: Big data is dead (2023)

#50
post #4

Overall, I agree with much of this post, but there are several caveats: 1) Mongo is a bad point of reference. The one lesson I've learned is that there is nothing Mongo does which postgresql doesn't do better. Big data solutions aren't nosql / mongo, but usually things like columnar databases, map/reduce, Cassandra, etc. 2) Plan for success 95% of businesses never become unicorns, but that's the goal for most (for th…

> 95% of businesses never become unicorns, but that's the goal for most Is it really the general case or is it just a HN echo chamber meme? My pet peeve is that patterns used by companies that in theory could become global unicorns are mimicked by companies where 5000 paying customers would mean an immense success

Many startups seem to aim for this, naturally it's difficult to put actual numbers to this, and I'm sure many pursue multiple aims in the hope one of them sticks. Since unicorns are really just describing private valuation, really it's the same as saying many aim to get stupendously wealthy. Can't put a number on that, but you can at least see it's a hope for many, though "goal" is probably making it seem like they've got actually achievable plans for it... That, at least, I'm not so convinced of.

Startups are, however, atypical from new businesses, ergo the unicorn myth, meaning we see many attempts to follow such a path that likely stands in the way of many new businesses from actually achieving the more real goals of, well, being a business, succeeding in their venture to produce whatever it is and reach their customers.

I describe it as a unicorn "myth" as it very much behaves in such a way, and is misinterpreted similarly to many myths we tell ourselves. Unicorns are rare and successful because they had the right mixture of novel business and the security of investment or buyouts. Startups purportedly are about new ways of doing business, however the reality is only a handful really explore such (e.g. if it's SaaS, it's probably not a startup), meaning the others are just regular businesses with known paths ahead (including, of course, following in the footsteps of prior startups, which really is self-refuting).

With that in mind, many of the "real" unicorns are realistically just highly valued new businesses (that got lucky and had fallbacks), as they are often not actually developing new approaches to business, whereas the mythical unicorns that startups want to be are half-baked ideas of how they'll achieve that valuation and wealth without much idea of how they do business (or that it can be fluid, matching their nebulous conception of it), just that "it'll come", especially with "growth".

There is no nominative determinism, and all that, so businesses may call themselves startups all they like, but if they follow the patterns of startups without the massive safety nets of support and circumstance many of the real unicorns had, then a failure to develop out the business proper means they do indeed suffer themselves by not appreciating 5000 paying customers and instead aim for "world domination", as it were, or acquisition (which they typically don't "survive" from, as an actual business venture). The studies have shown this really does contribute to the failure rate and instability of so-called startups, effectively due to not cutting it as businesses, far above the expected norm of new businesses...

So that pet peeve really is indicative of a much more profound issue that, indeed, seems to be a bit of an echo chamber blind spot with HN.

After all, if it ought to have worked all the time, reality would look very different from today. Just saying how many don't become unicorns (let alone the failure rate) doesn't address the dissonance from then concluding "but this time will be different". It also doesn't address the idea that you don't need to become a "unicorn", and maybe shouldn't want to either... but that's a line of thinking counter to the echo chamber, so I won't belabour it here.

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