Live data from Hacker News

Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

medicalxpress.com

41–50 of 141 posts

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#41

Someone with a better grasp of the scientific method perhaps you can answer this. I am under the impression we (science) hasn't definitively determined causation for depression. How can you definitively determine a link without knowing the underlying causes. It would imply you know how it works, doesn't it?

> Someone with a better grasp of the scientific method perhaps you can answer this.

As a (recovered, former) neurobio phd it seems the "grasp" is mostly there + the clarity you want just doesn't exist here

I.e., the concept of "depression" is pretty hard to nail down quantitatively in the first place: The best model we've got is a kind of self-contained proven-by-internal-self-consistency thing bootstrapped from questionnaires, which is of course further abstracted away onto those model systems we're allowed to kill: For example, calling "how long do mice swim before giving up if you chuck them into a tank of water" is roughly equated to "amount of depression" (this is oversimplified a bit; you correlate a bunch of those measures etc. but still a lot of very weak signals). Even "relevant quantitative data" like fMRI / ECoG is bootstrapped from questionnaires when it's something undefinable like "depression"

Which isn't the end of the world, everything started out like this, it just sucks when people take these results too seriously or infer too much from them.

And even the human black-box stuff in the DSM manuals admits a lot of different subtypes, lots of different and sometimes opposite symptom clusters, etc. It is entirely possible that mechanistically "depression" is a diverse group of mechanisms all boxed up into the most familiar mainstream concept/word.

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that way of writing terribly arrogant and annoying, like a smart 15-year-old.

I rather enjoy talking to smart 15 year olds. They're curious about the world and more likely to have fresh takes. What's not to like?

The problem is, even smart 15 year olds with fresh takes have to learn that no matter how interesting their ideas are, the scientific establishment is much more focused on finding good evidence to support incremental discoveries, rather than wide-eyed speculation about how complex biological processes work.

(I was that 15 year old, and then after many years of sciencing, realized that it was nothing like what I thought, and that all my best ideas were either wrong, ahead of their time, or stolen by more accomplished scientists.

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#43
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g.: As our understanding of DNA progresses, and we link more and more of it to different traits, will we eventually get into a situation where a swab on the water glass tells potential employer much more than the interview? For almost anything that an interview is designed to discover: no. DNA manipulates probabilities of certain things in one direction or another, but then that probability shift is amplified and…

Once we get past the diseases research, what's stopping us from going further? Could we discover e.g. a DNA sequence in human genome "linked" to higher intelligence, or better leadership qualities? And if yes, what can guarantee that instead of the Nazis' "master race" based on pseudo-scientific scull measurements we won't discover "master genes" based on actual DNA science? What frightens me is not what we can disco…

I mean, read up on the history of eugenics. Mainstream establishment science has come up close to doing exactly this sort of thing in the past (including sterilizing people who were considered "unfit").

It seems almost certain that we will continue to find more DNA sequences that are correlated with increased intelligence.

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#44
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> where a swab on the water glass tells potential employer much more than the interview? More likely RNA, because DNA doesn't mean traits are actually active. Also, only if you believe nature>>nurture and that experience doesn't matter. The level of understanding of your issues and how to counteract them makes a difference too. In practice you probably want someone with issues they know how to cope with and lots of e…

> only if you believe nature>>nurture Imagine a situation where there are two presidential candidates, who are both somewhat bad, and then it becomes a matter of public knowledge that one of them has "Viral DNA in [his] genome linked to major psychiatric disorders". I don't think what I do or don't believe would matter in the larger scheme of things.

Well, in the US at least, if the presidential candidate is well supported by their establishment party, it seems like there would be little-to-no difference. (much like my voting activity in first-past-the-post systems)

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#45
post #14

This kind of science leaves me with lots and lots of questions. E.g.: As our understanding of DNA progresses, and we link more and more of it to different traits, will we eventually get into a situation where a swab on the water glass tells potential employer much more than the interview? Or: imagine that in addition to the discovery "viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders" there's a disc…

> will we eventually get into a situation where a swab on the water glass tells potential employer much more than the interview?

So GATTACA (1997), a recommended movie treating the genetic discrimination, genoism, as main plot.

I don't think we will live to see it technologically speaking, but eventually our descendants may live through such hell of statistical speculation.

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#46
post #5

So uhm, can/should we start cutting these proviruses(?) out of our genomes? Unintended consequences?

A gene-editing inquisition against anything viral could definitely go too far. For example, we already know of syncytin [0], a protein essential for normal reproduction (placental formation) which is encoded by an ancient proviral genes.

Let's imagine some antiviral inquisitors who are either ignorant of that fact, or else operate in a world where there are very similar genes that haven't been discovered.

If they were editing gametes/embryos, they'd probably discover the problem quite quickly, and either make an exception or abandon their work.

However if they were enacting some kind of retroviral edit on adults (which would be kinda-hypocritical) then things might look fine for a little bit... until someone realizes that there are no more babies anymore and the population is going to go extinct without a fix.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncytin-1

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that way of writing terribly arrogant and annoying, like a smart 15-year-old.

Thank you for your honest perspective! Sincere thanks. I guess it’s the approach of 45 years of age that I am unfazed. I’ve heard a number of times that my persona in writing absolutely does not make sense to some people – until they meet me. I think I can assure you of my non-arrogance. The wry, cynical, even flippant? note is directed at myself. My limitations and recklessness and jumping to conclusions. If you fin…

IMO there has been a growing undercurrent, in online discussions forums, of disdain for writing and authors who aren’t well-established as authority figures or known experts in their field. Tone and word choice is narrowing into a conversational style, and anyone “straying from the pack” sticks out like a sore thumb in online boards.

Anything sarcastic or playful can be perceived as insincere.

I’d be happy to read more of your thoughts—you should keep writing.

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#48
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> E.g.: As our understanding of DNA progresses, and we link more and more of it to different traits, will we eventually get into a situation where a swab on the water glass tells potential employer much more than the interview? For almost anything that an interview is designed to discover: no. DNA manipulates probabilities of certain things in one direction or another, but then that probability shift is amplified and…

Once we get past the diseases research, what's stopping us from going further? Could we discover e.g. a DNA sequence in human genome "linked" to higher intelligence, or better leadership qualities? And if yes, what can guarantee that instead of the Nazis' "master race" based on pseudo-scientific scull measurements we won't discover "master genes" based on actual DNA science? What frightens me is not what we can disco…

Because DNA won't tell you whether the genetically-genius person smashed their head on a rock and is now totally unfit for your high-paying engineering job.

Nor will it tell you whether the genetically-average intelligence person spent 14 hours per day for the last 8 years in the code mines building awesome stuff.

I.e. it won't tell you the types of things that interviews are designed to suss out.

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#49
post #14

This kind of science leaves me with lots and lots of questions. E.g.: As our understanding of DNA progresses, and we link more and more of it to different traits, will we eventually get into a situation where a swab on the water glass tells potential employer much more than the interview? Or: imagine that in addition to the discovery "viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders" there's a disc…

Please don’t give anybody ideas, hiring practices in tech are already so shitty

Re: Viral DNA in the human genome linked to major psychiatric disorders

#50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I found that way of writing terribly arrogant and annoying, like a smart 15-year-old.

Thank you for your honest perspective! Sincere thanks. I guess it’s the approach of 45 years of age that I am unfazed. I’ve heard a number of times that my persona in writing absolutely does not make sense to some people – until they meet me. I think I can assure you of my non-arrogance. The wry, cynical, even flippant? note is directed at myself. My limitations and recklessness and jumping to conclusions. If you fin…

I find your writing - at least in these 2 comments - amusing and insightful to read. thank you
Post reply on HN