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Scandal at America's top science fair

karlstack.com

41–50 of 229 posts

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#41
post #24

One of the details that strike me is that the cheater comes from a fairly wealthy background and has no need for that prize money at all. They have much more to lose than gain and this doesn’t seem rational at all.

It's for university admissions. It's not that surprising. There's a lot of fraud in admissions. I've met students who have given TED talks on subjects they have no idea about, written science books with fake reviews on Amazon, etc. all for admissions.

There are a lot of firms specializing in designing bullshit extracurricular activities for rich snobs. As long as you’re willing to pay it’s not hard to have UN photo ops, TED talks like you said, philanthropy in Africa, etc. under your belt, all low risk activities that are usually good enough for Ivy League. It’s interesting this guy chose to fake one of the few things people might actually bother to scrutinize. He’s probably looking further than college, though.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#42

Science fairs always have hints of fraud around them. Many of the children putting out incredibly advanced research, beyond their capacity, are benefiting from their parents’ expertise, or friends of family, or access to labs, and such. It’s not talked about much but has been an issue for decades. As a side note, the criticism around this incident seems to have some racial tones. It’s weird to see tweets referring to…

I don't know if it's still the case, but decades ago when I was at ISEF (and somewhat fewer years ago when I judged...) the judges would get to talk to the students.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#43
post #28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you attempting to say with "scare quotes" and conspiratorial nods to The Consensus ?

Slightly offtopic : there seems to be a lack of articles loosely related to climate change / green-tech on HN... given the amount of new tech and the size and urgency of warming, Id expect to see more discussion/argument. It seems to be a self-censored topic on HN, for reasons I genuinely cant guess.

"urgency"? That's what they want you to think... and yes there are lots of articles but they get quickly flagged by those who don't believe in that religion.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#44

>Everyone makes mistakes — Lord knows I did plenty of stupid, immoral things when I was 17 — and there is always the opportunity for growth and redemption. when did the definition of 'mistake' change to encompass actions done on purpose? a mistake is when your data is invalid because you did the math wrong, not when all your data is simultaneously false and plagiarized. i don't mean to disagree with the notion that h…

Those stupid, immoral things that the author did at 17 were also done on purpose. The mistake is in the reasoning that led to the decision to do the action.

Pai's mistake was _deciding_ to commit research fraud, and then doing it.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#45
post #24

One of the details that strike me is that the cheater comes from a fairly wealthy background and has no need for that prize money at all. They have much more to lose than gain and this doesn’t seem rational at all.

They don’t need the money. They want to win so they can get into college.

Is college that important when you’re already rich af? There are other channels to get in without risking reputational ruin.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#46

In reading this, I am reminded of a YouTube video by CGP Grey about how anger is more viral than any other emotional reaction online, including love. But then I think, isn't this one of those times where at least some level of annoyance is justified? Except, there's nothing I can do about it. Does making more people aware, that can't do anything about it, improve the situation? Or is awareness pointless because of ho…

Anger is an appropriate reaction to dishonest behavior

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#47
My kids attended the same high school district that this student's school, Canyon Crest Academy (CCA), is part of. My youngest has friends that attended CCA and I asked him once why he didn't want to attend (it's an open school district) -- his reply is "all they do is study for AP tests." So I'm thinking there might be other pressures (i.e. parental) to perform, and this student may have responded in a desperate fashion.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#48

>Everyone makes mistakes — Lord knows I did plenty of stupid, immoral things when I was 17 — and there is always the opportunity for growth and redemption. when did the definition of 'mistake' change to encompass actions done on purpose? a mistake is when your data is invalid because you did the math wrong, not when all your data is simultaneously false and plagiarized. i don't mean to disagree with the notion that h…

Most mistakes aren’t accidents, plenty of accidents aren’t mistakes.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am curious, what is the definition of winners here? Do they make more money or do they invent more successful products/ideas or is it something else?

Money, social acceptance, access to desirable partners, positions of prestige, etc. All the nice things we wrestle over in life. Anything you compete for except the “he was a good man” phrasing in obituaries, the cheaters usually get to have. Even if caught. Not cheating outside of a few really heinous crimes such as murder (killing your science fair opponent wouldn’t be a winning strategy if caught) is an altruistic…

> Not cheating... is an altruistic action.

Wow that's dark.

Re: Scandal at America's top science fair

#50
post #46

In reading this, I am reminded of a YouTube video by CGP Grey about how anger is more viral than any other emotional reaction online, including love. But then I think, isn't this one of those times where at least some level of annoyance is justified? Except, there's nothing I can do about it. Does making more people aware, that can't do anything about it, improve the situation? Or is awareness pointless because of ho…

Anger is an appropriate reaction to dishonest behavior

The anger is appropriate for the circumstance, maybe. Seeking out things to make you angry (aka social media in general) is not healthy.
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