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Assange loses extradition appeal

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#41

Post by zbuc »

jellicle wrote: post #37
zbuc wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Swedish law requires a person to be physically present before charges can be laid, so this can only happen once Mr Assange is on Swedish territory." http://www.fairtrials.net/documents/Sweden_QA.pdf That's just how their justice system works. He is accused of committing the crimes in Sweden, so in Sweden shall he be questioned.

You haven't answered the question.

Yes I did. The question was, "Why can't he be questioned in Britain?"

Swedish law says he has to be questioned in Sweden, not Britain.

How's that not an answer?

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#42

Post by wvenable »

jgrahamc wrote: post #12

This is probably an unpopular opinion for some of the HN population, but I wish that Assange would be extradited to Sweden. He's appealing extradition on technical grounds, and it's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there. All of the current proceedings are a sideshow which have nothing to do with the things he'd accused of. He's accused of sexual offenses in Sweden, we have a working system…

> It's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there.

But he already did. He stayed, he was questioned, and then he asked if he could leave Sweden, they said yes, and he left. Then another prosecutor unrelated to the original case wants him back for further questioning.

To be honest, I don't think it's an unpopular opinion and it was my opinion until I looked into things further. However, once you know all the facts, it seems very suspicious or, at least, unnecessary.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#43

Post by rickmb »

bobsy wrote: post #3

I have no opinion on what is happening to Assange. I don't know enough facts. I find it unlikely that there is a big conspiracy involving America though. I find it somewhat ridiculous the number of appeals you can have. Assange lost on the original verdict, then the appeal. He can then appeal again. I assume if that fails he can appeal to some EU court? Its like the deportation of Abu Qatada. One has so many appeals…

> I find it unlikely that there is a big conspiracy involving America though.

Because there is absolutely no recent history of the US conspiring with friendly governments to circumvent the rule of law and illegally transporting, imprisoning and even torturing people that were considered a threat to the US, right?

And surely there is also absolutely no documented recent history of the US pressuring European authorities, especially the Swedish, to prosecuted people for crimes against US interests... cough piracy cough.

You're right about one thing, if the US were behind it, it would be no "big conspiracy". It would be business as usual.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#44

Post by vidarh »

lolcraft wrote: post #21
jgrahamc wrote: post #12

This is probably an unpopular opinion for some of the HN population, but I wish that Assange would be extradited to Sweden. He's appealing extradition on technical grounds, and it's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there. All of the current proceedings are a sideshow which have nothing to do with the things he'd accused of. He's accused of sexual offenses in Sweden, we have a working system…

Agree, this is ridiculous: > But Dinah Rose QC, for Mr Assange, said she could challenge the Supreme Court's decision because it relied on a 1969 convention relating to how treaties - such as those concerning extradition - should be implemented, and this had not been discussed during the hearing. Watch and see. Now his lawyer will put into question the very meaning of implementing an international treaty. All in orde…

> All in order to prevent a possible rapist,

... who might just be innocent, in which case he has every reason to be paranoid about why they are pursuing him in this manner and why they are so concerned about getting him into a Swedish jail immediately instead of taking up the offer of questioning him in London.

He has plenty of reason to fight extradition whether or not he's innocent.

And FWIW, in my opinion the comparison to Polanski, given the different nature of the cases, borders on defamation.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#45

Post by khuey »

vidarh wrote: post #35
peterstjohn wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't understand this, though. Under the US-UK extradition treaty (signed into law in the UK in 2003, in the US in 2006, I think), all the US has to do is provide the UK with reasonable suspicion that Assange committed a crime within the US, and the British would hand him over. Is the Swedish extradition treaty vastly different?

I don't think this has anything to do with the treaty texts. UK judges are known to stand up to the political establishment when parliament doesn't get their ducks in a row and very, very carefully make sure they are consistent with UK constitutional law, which does in fact provide fairly strong protections, and even more so coupled with the Human Rights Act. This to the ongoing exasperation of UK politicians. Swedis…

I'm quite surprised to hear that. My naive expectation was that the UK would be much more likely to hand Assange over to the US than Sweden.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#46

Post by rickmb »

zbuc wrote: post #41
jellicle wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You haven't answered the question.

Yes I did. The question was, "Why can't he be questioned in Britain?" Swedish law says he has to be questioned in Sweden, not Britain. How's that not an answer?

questioned charged

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#47

Post by fusiongyro »

jgrahamc wrote: post #12

This is probably an unpopular opinion for some of the HN population, but I wish that Assange would be extradited to Sweden. He's appealing extradition on technical grounds, and it's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there. All of the current proceedings are a sideshow which have nothing to do with the things he'd accused of. He's accused of sexual offenses in Sweden, we have a working system…

I agree with you. It's very hard to defend Assange's actions without appealing to paranoia. If he didn't commit the crimes, he ought to behave as though he has nothing to be afraid of. His flight from law is becoming a bigger story than the actual accusations--it's hard to look innocent while fleeing the authorities. If he really did nothing wrong, the appropriate place to prove it is in court, not on HN.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#48

Post by hythloday »

vidarh wrote: post #39
hythloday wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange has not been charged with a crime because Swedish law requires him to be present in Sweden before they do so. This is one of 22 comment on this very article--if you're going to charge people with willful ignorance you probably need a more credible position to do so. :) As I understand it both women claim he had sex non-consensually with them - with one he had sex with her while she was asleep, in the other ca…

> Assange has not been charged with a crime because Swedish law requires him to be present in Sweden before they do so. He is wanted for arrest to be questioned on suspicion. He has not been interviewed. It would be absolutely shockingly unprecedented even for Sweden if they intend to charge him based on testimony that one prosecutor didn't even believe indicated a crime had taken place, without a formal complaint (s…

He has been interviewed, about these events, on the 30th August, by Sthlm police[0]. Swedish law demands that he can only be charged after a second round of questioning after extradition (as I understand it).

How many "less high profile" alleged rapists leave the country and then fight extradition? It seems to me obvious that he's being treated unusually because he has behaved unusually.

It is not uncommon, especially in cases of this kind, for prosecutions to be brought even in the absence of formal complaints (and sometimes against the express wishes of the victim). That's the nature of criminal actions - you offend against the state, and the state brings the prosecution. It's sometimes absurd but, again, it's not out of the ordinary.

Everything I've heard from Assange about his behaviour has been deflective - "the charges are without basis" is the closest he's got to denying it and that sounds like it came from his lawyer. "This has been a very successful smear campaign", "I'm the only victim in this", "it's deeply disturbing that the charges are raised at this time", and that the extradition proceedings to Sweden are "actually an attempt to get me into a jurisdiction which will then make it easier to extradite me to the US".

If the often-raised last point is true, why the hell did he APPLY FOR RESIDENCE in Sweden three months before the warrant was issued? [1]

The whole thing really seems to me like he knows he did the things he is accused of but he just doesn't think they're crimes or problematic. You're welcome to draw an alternative conclusion, but I don't think there is anything murky in the judicial process.

[0] http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010/aug/31/wikileaks-julian... [1] http://www.thelocal.se/29684/20101018/

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#49

Post by vidarh »

hythloday wrote: post #48
vidarh wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Assange has not been charged with a crime because Swedish law requires him to be present in Sweden before they do so. He is wanted for arrest to be questioned on suspicion. He has not been interviewed. It would be absolutely shockingly unprecedented even for Sweden if they intend to charge him based on testimony that one prosecutor didn't even believe indicated a crime had taken place, without a formal complaint (s…

He has been interviewed, about these events, on the 30th August, by Sthlm police[0]. Swedish law demands that he can only be charged after a second round of questioning after extradition (as I understand it). How many "less high profile" alleged rapists leave the country and then fight extradition? It seems to me obvious that he's being treated unusually because he has behaved unusually. It is not uncommon, especiall…

You are right, I didn't remember the first interview. He was, though, subsequently told he was free to leave, after the first prosecutor decided there was no case. When he's a new prosecutor well known for her aggressive activism in expanding the scope of rape law then decides to override, there's every reason to be worried, whatever you've done or not done.

Re: Assange loses extradition appeal

#50

Post by mtgx »

fusiongyro wrote: post #47
jgrahamc wrote: post #12

This is probably an unpopular opinion for some of the HN population, but I wish that Assange would be extradited to Sweden. He's appealing extradition on technical grounds, and it's about time he went to Sweden and faced the judicial system there. All of the current proceedings are a sideshow which have nothing to do with the things he'd accused of. He's accused of sexual offenses in Sweden, we have a working system…

I agree with you. It's very hard to defend Assange's actions without appealing to paranoia. If he didn't commit the crimes, he ought to behave as though he has nothing to be afraid of. His flight from law is becoming a bigger story than the actual accusations--it's hard to look innocent while fleeing the authorities. If he really did nothing wrong, the appropriate place to prove it is in court, not on HN.

Should Dalai Lama turn himself in to the Chinese authorities, too?

Even if Assange was completely innocent, that wouldn't stop the US Government from trying to put him in a cell next to Bradley Manning for 2 years, if they were really pissed off at him. These days when you piss of the top hierarchy of the US Government, you're guilty until proven innocent.

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