Earlier quoted context omitted.
Who has the truth though?
Prediction markets
Lehman Brothers anyone?
Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
41–50 of 76 posts
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#42Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is that true in any country or just US? I have the impression that in China is not so difficult to build nuclear power plants.
In China, if you're the medium rank politician charged with ensuring that a nuclear reactor gets built in province X, and ten years later there is not an operating nuclear reactor in province X, then the Party tends to get mad. And if they find out you've stolen the money then the consequences can be fatal. If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of bi…
There are plenty of issues with that approach, mind you.
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is that true in any country or just US? I have the impression that in China is not so difficult to build nuclear power plants.
In China, if you're the medium rank politician charged with ensuring that a nuclear reactor gets built in province X, and ten years later there is not an operating nuclear reactor in province X, then the Party tends to get mad. And if they find out you've stolen the money then the consequences can be fatal. If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of bi…
> If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of big projects.
You should google "Tofu-Dreg". Videos are especially entertaining.
That money get's stolen. You just build it cheaper, get smeared by contractors, employ slaves, etc.
Also, that "tolerance" of the West is surely worth a discussion, but comparing it to the ways a dictatorship enforces their laws and regulations makes it kinda, disturbing.
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#44Earlier quoted context omitted.
In China, if you're the medium rank politician charged with ensuring that a nuclear reactor gets built in province X, and ten years later there is not an operating nuclear reactor in province X, then the Party tends to get mad. And if they find out you've stolen the money then the consequences can be fatal. If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of bi…
> If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of big projects. You should google "Tofu-Dreg". Videos are especially entertaining. That money get's stolen. You just build it cheaper, get smeared by contractors, employ slaves, etc. Also, that "tolerance" of the West is surely worth a discussion, but comparing it to the ways a dictatorship enforces their laws…
In China there is tolerance for stealing as long as the job gets done. In the USA there is tolerance for the job not getting done, but not for stealing. I used to think our system was better, but it seems like China gets more done when they accept that there will be some losses to stealing.
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of big projects. You should google "Tofu-Dreg". Videos are especially entertaining. That money get's stolen. You just build it cheaper, get smeared by contractors, employ slaves, etc. Also, that "tolerance" of the West is surely worth a discussion, but comparing it to the ways a dictatorship enforces their laws…
In China there is tolerance for stealing as long as the job gets done. In the USA there is tolerance for the job not getting done, but not for stealing. I used to think our system was better, but it seems like China gets more done when they accept that there will be some losses to stealing.
How does it help you if the job is "done" but causes a serious risk to lives?
As I said: the stealing still happens. It's institutionalized in China.
Your system IS better...or at least, for now. China is a dictatorship. Their way of handling "their" people is mad and dangerous. Even if you get things "done", you better be happy that you've been lucky to live in the US and not be afraid that your house may fall apart, or you disappear in some hole in the road.
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#46It really does seem relatively easy to raise money in nuclear power for making a few dubious claims about factory production, reactor performance, and delivery timeline. In the industry, we call the 10 years it takes to realize that it's a lot harder than newcomers initially think, and that the people who tried in the past didn't fail merely because they were idiots who didn't think about economics: "getting run over…
Is that true in any country or just US? I have the impression that in China is not so difficult to build nuclear power plants.
> I have the impression that in China is not so difficult to build nuclear power plants.
Up until the mid-00s Japan was building quite a few plants as well, and they took about 4-5 years from breaking ground to commercial operation:
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_commercial_nuclear_rea...
Turns out that nuclear plants are like any manufactured widget: building at scale gets costs and time down once you have the workflow down and supply chain stood up.
The "trick" is settling on one standard design and just turning the crank.
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
> If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of big projects. You should google "Tofu-Dreg". Videos are especially entertaining. That money get's stolen. You just build it cheaper, get smeared by contractors, employ slaves, etc. Also, that "tolerance" of the West is surely worth a discussion, but comparing it to the ways a dictatorship enforces their laws…
In China there is tolerance for stealing as long as the job gets done. In the USA there is tolerance for the job not getting done, but not for stealing. I used to think our system was better, but it seems like China gets more done when they accept that there will be some losses to stealing.
> the USA there is tolerance for the job not getting done, but not for stealing.
Well, at that level it's playing loosely with semantics..
The money didn't get pocketed directly, but it got misused to pay a vast amount of costs and salaries with no result. As there are no results, the costs covered can be considered fictional. Which brings us back to bribery and stealing..
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#48Earlier quoted context omitted.
In China, if you're the medium rank politician charged with ensuring that a nuclear reactor gets built in province X, and ten years later there is not an operating nuclear reactor in province X, then the Party tends to get mad. And if they find out you've stolen the money then the consequences can be fatal. If there's any one thing that's causing a ""decline"" in the west, it's a tolerance for fraud and failure of bi…
There are plenty of issues with that approach, mind you.
Somehow our leadership convinced us that them facing consequences is a bad idea while they erected a police state that would throw us in a cage if we so much as had a plant they don't like in our pocket.
Leaders need to face the greatest consequences. That's the price of leadership. We have things backward.
Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#49Re: Fact checking of claims about nuclear power projects
#50It really does seem relatively easy to raise money in nuclear power for making a few dubious claims about factory production, reactor performance, and delivery timeline. In the industry, we call the 10 years it takes to realize that it's a lot harder than newcomers initially think, and that the people who tried in the past didn't fail merely because they were idiots who didn't think about economics: "getting run over…
Is that true in any country or just US? I have the impression that in China is not so difficult to build nuclear power plants.
It wasn't too difficult to build RBMK-1000's in the Soviet either, it was far more difficult to clean up the results though.
I think it'd be immensely interesting to hear of the differences in the EPR reactors built in China (built in 8-9 years) vs the European plants (taking 18years for the finished site in Finland, the French one not finished yet?). On paper the same basic design but twice the build time.
Olk-3 in Finland was first to break ground so were they hampered by being first to be built and fixing build issues as they went along or were issues from Finland just not deemed a problem in China?