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Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

arxiv.org

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Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#41

Post by smokel »

strogonoff wrote: post #17
tomhoward wrote: post #11

I’m writing this comment so that people who want to know more about alternative theories of consciousness (to materialism/physicalism [1]) can know where to go to find well-argued positions on the topic. (To be clear, I’m not here to argue about the topic or try to persuade anyone of any position – that’s a waste of everyone’s time). I recommend seeking out discussions involving: - Federico Faggin: inventor of silico…

A philosophical framework in which creating an artificial entity that is conscious and self-aware in a human-like manner is as straightforward as modeling the human brain is monistic materialism. Of course, it’s not the only framework available. Among the modern takes, Donald Hoffman’s interface theory of perception (explored in, say, his Objects of Consciousness paper[0]) is an interesting one that appears to align…

> we may have conscious software, which presumably should be granted human rights

A dog (most likely) has consciousness, but no human rights.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#42

Post by ryandvm »

Consciousness is an evolved information system requirement in all life forms that are complex enough to be capable of computationally modelling their environment, and importantly, their own place in that environment. You cannot model the world and your place in it without consciousness.

Also, consciousness is not binary (present or not), it is a gradient. I am more conscious than I was this morning when I groggily opened my eyes and hadn't yet fully booted up my model of the world. I am more conscious than my dog, which is more conscious than my goldfish, which is more conscious than a worm, etc. A dragonfly has consciousness, but only enough to model, "I am here. I want to eat that."

The scary bit about consciousness being a gradient is that we kind of consider ourselves the pinnacle of life forms mostly because of the complexity of our conscious experience. If consciousness is simply an emergent property of sufficiently complex information modelling, than assuming continued increases in computational capability, we're probably on the brink of creating consciousness that is "more conscious" than ourselves. And by our own definition of import, this consciousness will exceed our own place in the universe.

Will human life be the most important consideration in the universe if there is an artificial intelligence (actually, there will be nothing artificial about it) that is capable of modelling and empathizing with billions of life forms on an individual level?

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#43

Post by smokel »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #3

We don't even know whether other human beings are conscious, man. The only thing which we might say with much certainty is that things which are more "like us" along some metric are more likely to be actually conscious, and things which are less "like us" are less likely to be so. Maybe everything is conscious. Maybe nothing except one's own self. But you'll never truly know one way or another, even if humanity inven…

Consciousness might be overrated. It could simply be a short-term memory of the state you were in.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#44

Post by tomhoward »

smokel wrote: post #41
strogonoff wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A philosophical framework in which creating an artificial entity that is conscious and self-aware in a human-like manner is as straightforward as modeling the human brain is monistic materialism. Of course, it’s not the only framework available. Among the modern takes, Donald Hoffman’s interface theory of perception (explored in, say, his Objects of Consciousness paper[0]) is an interesting one that appears to align…

> we may have conscious software, which presumably should be granted human rights A dog (most likely) has consciousness, but no human rights.

It has animal rights, which are broadly commensurate with the level of consciousness and agency it’s deemed to have.

Mammals and other animals have legal protections not afforded to fish and insects.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#45

Post by visarga »

V__ wrote: post #24
Dibby053 wrote: post #18

So far, the concept of consciousness is basically metaphysics. It doesn't have a role, it can't be measured... If I may suggest a starting point to get over this hurdle: let's create a "consciousness captcha": some task that is easy for conscious beings, but hard for algorithms. Consciousness evolved, therefore it must have provided an advantage. We just have to find it.

> Consciousness evolved, therefore it must have provided an advantage This is also my personal belief, but frankly, consciousness might just as well be some emergent 'side-product' property in all 'higher' intelligent beings.

The advantage of consciousness is that it protects the body. Consciousness is the inner loop, evolution is the outer loop of life. The goal of consciousness is tied to its survival.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#46

Post by ffwd »

ryandvm wrote: post #42

Consciousness is an evolved information system requirement in all life forms that are complex enough to be capable of computationally modelling their environment, and importantly, their own place in that environment. You cannot model the world and your place in it without consciousness. Also, consciousness is not binary (present or not), it is a gradient. I am more conscious than I was this morning when I groggily op…

There are two types of gradient though, conceptually. If consciousness is some state of matter that is unknown still, and each neuron, for example, contains "one bit" of consciousness, then the gradient is that as you add more neurons, you add more complexity to the consciousness, but you do not change the fundamental experience of consciousness. You add more content but not more experience in itself.

If on the other hand consciousness is this emergent phenomenon that depends on neurons and their connections, then the gradient (and thus the experience) would be far more diverse and there would be a lot of different ways consciousness could "feel".

The problem I have is that for example, as far as my brain can remember, stimuli has looked the exact same all throughout my life. If I saw my a tree when I was 10, and I saw the same tree now, the conscious "qualia" of this would look exactly the same. To me this is a mystery, that the connections in the brain do not change the experience of qualia at all. Red looks like red no matter what the neuronal state of your brain is. I don't have an answer to this but just something I've been thinking about.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#47

Post by verisimi »

ryandvm wrote: post #42

Consciousness is an evolved information system requirement in all life forms that are complex enough to be capable of computationally modelling their environment, and importantly, their own place in that environment. You cannot model the world and your place in it without consciousness. Also, consciousness is not binary (present or not), it is a gradient. I am more conscious than I was this morning when I groggily op…

> "Consciousness is"

So certain, so much knowledge. Where do you get this certainty from and can you share with us so we can know too?

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#48

Post by everdrive »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #3

We don't even know whether other human beings are conscious, man. The only thing which we might say with much certainty is that things which are more "like us" along some metric are more likely to be actually conscious, and things which are less "like us" are less likely to be so. Maybe everything is conscious. Maybe nothing except one's own self. But you'll never truly know one way or another, even if humanity inven…

Consciousness seems to be a word that is poorly defined. You see this a lot, and one of the more popular instances are questions like "is cereal a salad?" It plays on the fact that the definition of a salad is relatively loose, and because it's loose items which aren't usually associated with the word do actually fit the definition.

Consciousness feels much the same way: there's a very loose definition which is colloquially understood by almost everyone. Asking whether humans are conscious (and I know you were being somewhat facetious) feels like it fits into this frame of thought. Consciousness, as most people understand it, is something which almost all people possess and something like a rock cannot possess. I think it's perfectly fine to argue that a rock or a tree can be conscious in some way. However, this does require a precise definition of consciousness in order to clearly differentiate it from the loose colloquial notion that most people hold.

Re: Is artificial consciousness achievable? Lessons from the human brain

#50

Post by thr0w4w4yHNabc »

alex_duf wrote: post #23
seydor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I m still conflicted what we do with the bag of flesh after the fact. Are we bag holding forever?

Something tells me the bag might change its mind about the whole operation once the upload is finished and it realises what's up next. So yeah not sure I like the idea.

So far the only idea that I've read about and might feasibly result in uploading instead of copying is gradual replacement of each cell by a nanobot simulating that cell. So at the end of it, there'd be no bag to change its mind.
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