We're seeing an uptick in open source projects getting relicenced to non-open licenses. Some projects are successfully forked and the userbase shifts, other times not. One theory of mine is that we can measure the risk that a project will be relicensed by looking at things like diversity of contributors, trademark ownership, contributor agreements, and license terms. Low risk projects include the Linux kernel (GPL, D…
Dual licensing also makes it IMHO less likely that a project "continues as proprietary". Example: Qt. I think "contributor agreements" are the biggest red flag. Though I like them for potentially upgrading a license (say from GPLv2 to v3), not that this always is a good thing.
Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
41–50 of 191 posts
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#42We're seeing an uptick in open source projects getting relicenced to non-open licenses. Some projects are successfully forked and the userbase shifts, other times not. One theory of mine is that we can measure the risk that a project will be relicensed by looking at things like diversity of contributors, trademark ownership, contributor agreements, and license terms. Low risk projects include the Linux kernel (GPL, D…
I wonder how accurate this assessment is since the Linux Foundation is a non-profit.
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#43Oracle making the change due to licensing is like a dictionary definition of hubris, considering how their own license enforcement operates.
https://opensource.oracle.com/ (almost endless list)
But then they have take FLOSS projects and abandoned them, see OOo for instance:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apache_OpenOffice#/media/File:...
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#44I wish there was a type safe, algebraic data type using Terraform alternative.
There are Java and C# (somewhat typesafe imho) and this (Kotlin, reasonably typesafe imho): https://github.com/VirtuslabRnD/pulumi-kotlin For Pulumi. When I see the pulumi-kotlin example code I much prefer it over my Terraform scripts. (We picked TF before Pulumi was an option, and waaaaay before it had reasonably typesafe lang support)
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see how any of this could be true considering IBM is also heavily involved in OpenTofu (and did so first)
I was wondering, once IBM got Hashicorp, if they would reverse the license change for Terraform. Not been that long since the announcement, so still hoping they will.
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oracle Linux has been a thing for decades. It's largely because a lot of Oracle DB products where performance mattered (eg. Exadata) needed some sort of a base OS that Oracle could manage and optimize as needed.
> It's largely because a lot of Oracle DB products where performance mattered (eg. Exadata) needed some sort of a base OS that Oracle could manage and optimize as needed All that’s needed is update sysctl.conf to tune kernel parameters to the workload. Every Linux sysadmin knows how to do this. What kernel parameters need to be updated is heavily documented for any product.
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#47We're seeing an uptick in open source projects getting relicenced to non-open licenses. Some projects are successfully forked and the userbase shifts, other times not. One theory of mine is that we can measure the risk that a project will be relicensed by looking at things like diversity of contributors, trademark ownership, contributor agreements, and license terms. Low risk projects include the Linux kernel (GPL, D…
Mostly things like copyright ownership transfer is not a thing with OSS communities because it strongly discourages third parties from contributing. Copyright transfers are only needed with some licenses (GPL style licenses that insist everything else is licensed the same way) and cannot prevent a retroactive fork even if you have them. Other licenses allow distributing mixed licensed code and you can just create a commercial source distribution for those because the license explicitly allows that. Either way, anyone with the pre-license change version of the code can fork. That's why Elastic, which used the Apache license and had copyright transfers, got forked.
The more widely used an OSS project is, the more likely it is that somebody will fork it if it is re-licensed. Because that usually means lots of external contributors and plenty of interest from wealthy companies that depend on it. Meaning there are skills and money needed to fund the fork. Copyright transfers don't stop this from happening. Unless you specifically want to fire most of your user base, this just doesn't make any sense from a business point of view.
A failure to fork basically indicates the project didn't have a strong developer community and big companies simply didn't care about the project.
I consult some clients on Elasticsearch and Opensearch. Most of my recent clients now default to Opensearch. Because it's the OSS option. They are clearly spending money to get support (from me and others) but Elastic isn't getting any. As far as I can see, Opensearch now represents the vast majority of new users and is becoming a significant source of money for hosting, training, and consulting. But Elastic is getting none of that.
My guess is that the industry will learn from the repeated re-licensing and forking and subsequent community split that has been happening. Elastic, Redis, OpenTofu, Centos, etc. The pattern is the same every time: 1) project gets relicensed 2) a few weeks later a consortium of companies pools resources together and forks 3) most users stick with open source and the company cuts themselves off from those users.
Long term, I would not be surprised to see some of those companies offering support for their OSS forks (in addition to their commercial offerings) or even reverting the license change. This would make a lot of sense for e.g. Elastic as there's a lot of duplicated effort between them and Amazon. And Amazon gets a lot for free from outside contributors.
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#48I wish there was a type safe, algebraic data type using Terraform alternative.
There are Java and C# (somewhat typesafe imho) and this (Kotlin, reasonably typesafe imho): https://github.com/VirtuslabRnD/pulumi-kotlin For Pulumi. When I see the pulumi-kotlin example code I much prefer it over my Terraform scripts. (We picked TF before Pulumi was an option, and waaaaay before it had reasonably typesafe lang support)
This lets you use Pulumi w/Gradle multi-project builds in Kotlin script.
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was wondering, once IBM got Hashicorp, if they would reverse the license change for Terraform. Not been that long since the announcement, so still hoping they will.
I believe Hashicorp's move wrt the license of TF was in order to close the IBM takeover deal.
Way back when the license changed the threads on HN had HashiCorp employees claiming the change was primarily to protect HashiCorp from the fact IBM was reselling Vault. IBM then went ahead and helped fork Vault (OpenBao).
Re: Oracle dumps Terraform for OpenTofu
#50A giant corporation like Oracle switching to the fork because they don’t want to engage commercially with Hashicorp is peak greedy.
(Of course, companies do go out of business, and products stop to be maintained, and the example here is a bit extreme, but the point is that company will do what makes the most business sense)