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Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

theregister.com

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Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#41

Post by Dudhbbh3343 »

seeknotfind wrote: post #29

The software stack on a modern cellphone, or of a browser, is about as likely to stop fingerprinting as a sticky-fingered burglar already in the police database can, in an oil and sugar factory, prevent his identification after touching every knob and lever in a warehouse of machines by wiping off the door handle on the front door alone. Rules are important because we cannot prevent crime from occurring at all. Thoug…

Librefox does a decent job at resisting fingerprinting, at least against the fairly standard service that we used at my previous company.

I'm sure with a little effort it could easily be defeated, but for some purposes it's enough.

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#42

Post by Tagbert »

xyst wrote: post #38

The claims of privacy by Apple are just a facade. I’m done with this walled in ecosystem (jail). They have good looking products but the company itself is as rotten as their competition.

And you got all of that from an article about Google and Facebook, maybe, trying to get around Apple’s attempts to provide more privacy?

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#43

Post by comex »

Spivak wrote: post #23
KerrAvon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uptime can be pretty long on iOS devices, and the developers have no legitimate use for that information.

Not sure why you're being downvoted for this, iOS devices aren't servers, apps have very little control over their lifecycle, and the existing time APIs for an app's internal sense of time are plenty. There is no reason at all an app would need to know this random piece of global state. I'm not even sure why Apple offers the real uptime instead of an offset starting when the app first called the API. It's the first t…

Apps don't need it, and it probably shouldn't be offered. But as things stand, many of the OS's fundamental time APIs return time since boot, and for some reason, most of those aren't even listed as required-reason APIs. The APIs listed are mach_absolute_time() and ProcessInfo.systemUptime, but there is also clock_gettime() with CLOCK_MONOTONIC/CLOCK_MONOTONIC_RAW/CLOCK_UPTIME_RAW, as well more obscure ones like mach_continuous_time(). Therefore:

- I find it easy to believe that some of the apps may not realize they're using the restricted APIs in an unapproved way.

- Alternately, some of the apps may not be using restricted APIs at all, and instead getting the same information with non-restricted APIs. Not clear if that's even against the rules. It certainly would be extremely sketchy if done as an intentional workaround, but it would be even easier to do accidentally. If you grepped the codebase for uses of the restricted APIs, you wouldn't necessarily find uses of these other APIs.

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#44

Post by Dudhbbh3343 »

calmworm wrote: post #19
staplers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look up "retargeting ads"

Right. This is the most basic level of marketing. Is this not as widely known as I assumed it was?

How does it work exactly? Google sells lists of search terms and associated device ids to Meta?

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#45

Post by idle_zealot »

jonas21 wrote: post #40
KerrAvon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uptime can be pretty long on iOS devices, and the developers have no legitimate use for that information.

The only monotonically increasing clock available on iOS is based on uptime. If you need to measure accurate timings or guarantee that events are in the right order, you have to use it. As Apple points out in their guidelines, there are many legitimate uses for this information. Developers can add an offset to the values before sending them off the device, and that might be what Apple wants them to do, but these comp…

Surely the fix here is to lie to apps about uptime, adding the offset at the OS level.

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#46

Post by ElFitz »

SunlitCat wrote: post #37
havaloc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's because SMS is awful. I'm looking forward to see how well Apple implements RCS and how many of these problems go away.

Well, my comment wasn't aiming towards the technical details (which I even agree!), but more about the social background, with people considering other people who "just send green text" as "lesser". And no, it's not just the "young people crowd", but a certain part of society.

One could argue it’s a good thing: these people filter themselves out of our lives. It could almost make me wish for an Android.

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#47

Post by dagmx »

tremarley wrote: post #9

Could this be the reason why on iPhones, nearly everything we search for in Google Chrome is advertised to us on Instagram?

More likely just tracking pixels. Unless Google is sharing data with Meta which seems unlikely. They operate competing ad networks.

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#48

Post by e136 »

jonas21 wrote: post #40
KerrAvon wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uptime can be pretty long on iOS devices, and the developers have no legitimate use for that information.

The only monotonically increasing clock available on iOS is based on uptime. If you need to measure accurate timings or guarantee that events are in the right order, you have to use it. As Apple points out in their guidelines, there are many legitimate uses for this information. Developers can add an offset to the values before sending them off the device, and that might be what Apple wants them to do, but these comp…

Adding an offset would still make this "derived data" which is "not allowed" to be sent off device.

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#49

Post by repeekad »

Dudhbbh3343 wrote: post #44
calmworm wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. This is the most basic level of marketing. Is this not as widely known as I assumed it was?

How does it work exactly? Google sells lists of search terms and associated device ids to Meta?

Google data never leaves their platform, it’s too valuable to them. Retargeting works the other way where a site or app attempts to get a cookie or fingerprint and gives them to Google or Meta to target that user with ads

Re: Google, Meta 'break' Apple's device fingerprinting rules

#50

Post by yathaid »

tremarley wrote: post #9

Could this be the reason why on iPhones, nearly everything we search for in Google Chrome is advertised to us on Instagram?

Happens on Android too. Google and Facebook have a secret agreement to share data.

https://www.wired.com/story/texas-accuses-google-facebook-il...

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