Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

bbc.co.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 71 posts

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#41

Post by exe34 »

askvictor wrote: post #4

We had to recently look at this as we sell our product in the UK. The rules are really quite pissweak. From the article: * that password procedures are more secure, including ensuring any set by the manufacturer are not left blank or using easy-to-guess choices like "12345" or "admin" Reasonable. But that's a _really_ low bar. * that there is clarity around how to report "bugs" or security problems that arise i.e. an…

There should be a requirement to release security updates for $X years or release the code as open-source.

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#42

Post by graemep »

matt-p wrote: post #40
askvictor wrote: post #4

We had to recently look at this as we sell our product in the UK. The rules are really quite pissweak. From the article: * that password procedures are more secure, including ensuring any set by the manufacturer are not left blank or using easy-to-guess choices like "12345" or "admin" Reasonable. But that's a _really_ low bar. * that there is clarity around how to report "bugs" or security problems that arise i.e. an…

This is V0, the actual requirements are regulations, which can be updated really easily. Much easier to pass a law with very basic requirements and increase them later. This is much better than nothing, which is what most countries have.

I would actually prefer a low that (in addition?) required a reasonable standard of care with regard to security, imposed responsibility for consequential loss for negligence, and left the courts to interpret it.

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#43

Post by matt-p »

graemep wrote: post #42
matt-p wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is V0, the actual requirements are regulations, which can be updated really easily. Much easier to pass a law with very basic requirements and increase them later. This is much better than nothing, which is what most countries have.

I would actually prefer a low that (in addition?) required a reasonable standard of care with regard to security, imposed responsibility for consequential loss for negligence, and left the courts to interpret it.

You can already sue a manufacturer for consequential loss if you can prove negligence?

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#44

Post by graemep »

immibis wrote: post #26
switch007 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was 95%* about immigration so none of those arguments mattered * number pulled from my behind. But it was surely very high

It was about brown people. Always is. They aren't bothered by white immigrants.

That is not true.

The leaders of both the Brexit campaigns (Boris Johnson and Nigel Farage) both clearly said that they wanted more non EU (so mostly non-white) immigration - provided it was skilled people. Government policy since Brexit has made non-EU immigration easier.

Remainers wanted less non-EU immgration and more EU immigration.

So somehow the people who wanted less white immigration and more non-white immigration are the racists?

This is one reason a lot of us Brown people voted for Brexit. not my main reason, which was mostly opposition to further integration (the commitment to "ever closer integration") and some aspects of EU decision making, legislation and regulation.

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#45

Post by graemep »

jstanley wrote: post #19
graemep wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that manufacturers and retailers inform customers how long they will receive support, including software updates, for the device they are buying and importers. This is the usual requirement in UK law for anything like this (e.g. safety, manufacturing defects). Retailers are responsible for what they sell, and importers are responsible for what they import. If you buy it on credit the credit provider (e.g. a credit…

Can you explain the credit thing? Surely a credit provider is just lending you money? Money is fungible. If I have £100 already, and someone lends me an extra £100, and then I buy two things that both cost £100, and one of them is faulty, how do we determine whether the credit provider is responsible?

It kicks in when the credit provider provides credit for that particular purchase. Common examples are credit card payments and car finance.

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#46

Post by Vinnl »

gnfargbl wrote: post #34
petepete wrote: post #2

While this move is clearly sensible the number of people importing absolute junk from Temu/AliExpress/Shein means millions of homes will be exploitable regardless.

> Most smart devices are manufactured outside the UK, but the PSTI act also applies to all organisations importing or retailing products for the UK market. Failure to comply with the act is a criminal offence, with fines up to £10 million or 4% of qualifying worldwide revenue (whichever is higher). -- https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/smart-devices-law Will the government actually go after AliExpress/Shein/Temu? Dunn…

I'm not sure how it works elsewhere, including the UK, but I believe here in the Netherlands, ordering from Aliexpress counts as importing, i.e. if you were to sell that on to others (like a drop-shipper), you're the retailer, but if you just keep it for personal use, then that's at your own risk.

Edit: tried to find a source again, [1] is the closest I could find and at least is reliable (but in Dutch).

[1] https://www.consumentenbond.nl/online-kopen/bestellen-bij-bu...

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#47

Post by zarzavat »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #36
irjoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's entirely true in the UK. The Polish plumber taking British jobs is a fairly common trope in far-right discourse. I believe this is prevalent across Western Europe in general.

I’m not convinced that the adherents of the UK and Western European far-right count Polish people as white, despite the typical Polish skin color. This is like how Italian and Irish people were often not considered white in the late 19th and early 20th century in the US, and probably in the UK too although I’m less familiar with that.

English people are generally not racist like Americans and don’t perceive the world in terms of a set of racial divisions. We are Island xenophobes, like Japanese people. There is us and then there is everybody else. Western Europeans get a pass because they are rich.

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#48

Post by graemep »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #36
irjoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's entirely true in the UK. The Polish plumber taking British jobs is a fairly common trope in far-right discourse. I believe this is prevalent across Western Europe in general.

I’m not convinced that the adherents of the UK and Western European far-right count Polish people as white, despite the typical Polish skin color. This is like how Italian and Irish people were often not considered white in the late 19th and early 20th century in the US, and probably in the UK too although I’m less familiar with that.

British culture is very different from US with regard to race. It took me a long time to understand what the difference was.

In fact every culture I know (directly or am informed about) is different form the others. I wrote a blog post about this: https://pietersz.co.uk/2023/08/racism-culture-different

I do not think people in the UK care about where immigrants are from, they care about whether they compete with them for jobs. This is why some groups of people wanted less EU immigration (predominantly unskilled) and more skilled immigration, and professional people almost universally want EU immigration and oppose post Brexit policies that have allowed more highly skilled immigration.

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#49

Post by gnfargbl »

Vinnl wrote: post #46
gnfargbl wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most smart devices are manufactured outside the UK, but the PSTI act also applies to all organisations importing or retailing products for the UK market. Failure to comply with the act is a criminal offence, with fines up to £10 million or 4% of qualifying worldwide revenue (whichever is higher). -- https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/blog-post/smart-devices-law Will the government actually go after AliExpress/Shein/Temu? Dunn…

I'm not sure how it works elsewhere, including the UK, but I believe here in the Netherlands, ordering from Aliexpress counts as importing, i.e. if you were to sell that on to others (like a drop-shipper), you're the retailer, but if you just keep it for personal use, then that's at your own risk. Edit: tried to find a source again, [1] is the closest I could find and at least is reliable (but in Dutch). [1] https://…

I checked and I think you're correct.

Temu's T&Cs for the UK specifically say that

> You agree that, where applicable, you will act as the importer of the products purchased

-- https://www.temu.com/uk/terms-of-use.html

So yep, on the face of it, this does look like a pretty big loophole.

Re: Tougher rules for sellers of internet-enabled devices in the UK

#50

Post by [deleted] »

jkaplowitz wrote: post #36
irjoe wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure that's entirely true in the UK. The Polish plumber taking British jobs is a fairly common trope in far-right discourse. I believe this is prevalent across Western Europe in general.

I’m not convinced that the adherents of the UK and Western European far-right count Polish people as white, despite the typical Polish skin color. This is like how Italian and Irish people were often not considered white in the late 19th and early 20th century in the US, and probably in the UK too although I’m less familiar with that.

[deleted]
Post reply on HN