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Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

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Re: Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

#41

Post by Fearlesspancake »

aaronharnly wrote: post #20

As an aside, what is the current state of "LLMs for NPCs" in video games? I don't really game or follow the industry, but I have to imagine both modders and publishers are working furiously to introduce more natural conversational experiences?

There's a PC game called "Suck Up!" where you play as a vampire trying to trick people into inviting you into their home so you can feed off them. All the NPCs are powered by an LLM and the game is all about using actual persuasive speech to appeal to their different personalities to convince them to let you in.

Re: Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

#42

Post by cyrialize »

z0r wrote: post #22
SAI_Peregrinus wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Much, much bigger decision tree than Chess or Go.

There are more possible moves to consider in STS than Go? I've dumped a hundred hours into the former and thousands into the latter and I wouldn't agree.

To echo the other commenters - yup, there are so many possible moves in the game.

For example, there is a relic that gives you the status "Intangible" every 6 turns, and then it resets. "Intangible" makes it so that every incoming damage is only 1 damage point. This relic has a counter and the number of turns it counts exists out of individual fights. So for example, you could be on your 1st turn in a fight, but to the relic it could be your 3rd.

At first, you might think to yourself that you should stall each fight long enough where you can end the fight on the relic counter being 5 - so that any next encounter you start will be your 6th turn to the relic - meaning you'll be intangible at the beginning of the fight.

But - there are situations where you might want the counter to be at 4, so that you will be intangible not on the 1st turn of a fight but the 2nd. For example, there are some enemies that don't do damage on turn 1, or do more damage on turn 2. There are situations where you want the counter to be at 3, 2, etc.

To add onto this - it can be VERY difficult to stall a fight such that you get the relic to the number you want and you kill the enemy you are facing on that turn.

There are so many decisions to be made surrounding this one relic. What I've described here doesn't really cover all the theory surrounding it.

You can find similar decision paths and theory around every card, relic, potion, enemy, boss, etc. in the game.

It's one of the many reasons why I love this game so, so much.

Re: Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

#43

Post by nottorp »

aaronharnly wrote: post #20

As an aside, what is the current state of "LLMs for NPCs" in video games? I don't really game or follow the industry, but I have to imagine both modders and publishers are working furiously to introduce more natural conversational experiences?

Let's see:

0. What conversation? Current LLMs don't really sound like conversation.

1. Running LLMs in real time for NPC conversation is a no no because they don't have extra cpu/gpu time for that, they need to have 8k ultra HDR at 240 fps.

2. Even if they did, to have a 'natural' conversation experience they'd have to ask their players to ... type text into the game. The tendency is to remove even text based predefined options and replace them with icons - see Fallout 4.

3. Even if they somehow got past 1 and 2, that would mean user generated content into the game and you'll soon see screenshots online of people playing the latest open world rpg thingy and generating furry porn inside it without any mods. That's not wholesome family fun, only violence is.

4. But don't worry, they will use LLMs to pregenerate bland content and stuff it in every corner of the world. If we're lucky, maybe they'll even human check it before release.

That being said, I'd enjoy a new generation of text adventure games that don't have you guess at what the parser can understand. But just the parser for my input.

Re: Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

#44

Post by nottorp »

anonyfox wrote: post #12
cyrialize wrote: post #8

Slay the Spire is my favorite video game of all time. I have 400+ hours on my Switch, 100+ hours on my phone, and 100+ hours on my PC. I'm obsessed. I think creating an AI for this game is quite difficult, but I'd love a chat bot to discuss decisions with - especially a bot that could take in the current state. It isn't enough to just take in the cards, but you should also take in relics, the counters on the relics,…

At some point I stopped playing it (after, well, 100s of hours), because somehow I felt that its only getting harder without me getting any reward outside of the raw challenge itself - which then feels just like working. Is there anything I didn't really notice that feels rewarding on higher levels?

> without me getting any reward outside of the raw challenge itself - which then feels just like working

Do you prefer being spoon fed rewards for grinding endlessly, like in your average free game?

Re: Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

#45

Post by lanternfish »

cyrialize wrote: post #40
barbariangrunge wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main thing that’s fun about these games is figuring out how to gain insights about how to play better. I think offloading the theorizing and problem solving in any way would make the game less fun. See also: most (not all) use of strategy guides and walkthroughs

I 100% agree. At A20 I constantly find myself in situations where I have to pick a card I'd never pick because it is my best option at that time. This leads to me learning more strategies and insights. For example, in a previous A20 run I had I took Metallicize as Ironclad late in Act 1 because I was facing the Guardian and I didn't encounter other good block plans. Prior to that, I tended to avoid Metallicize to sav…

Metallicize is also strong because Ironclad has many powerful strategies that want a very thin deck - two dropkicks go infinite if you can get your deck small enough. Metallicize adds a solid block strategy to any deck and doesn't increase the effective deck size because powers don't really take a spot.

Re: Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

#47

Post by [deleted] »

worldsayshi wrote: post #28
raincole wrote: post #14

I don't think there is any reason to believe LLM is the best kind of AI to solve a game (unless the game is about natural languages). AlphaGo Zero isn't LLM. The Dota bot that beat pro gamers is not LLM. If this is an ad of Amazon Q, I'm not sure whether it's a good one.

An LLM is definitely the best tool for "solving" a game like Slay the Spire or any game that require strategic thinking. Sounds like a fun project and it would be crazy impressive if the solution was better than random chance.

[deleted]

Re: Someone built an LLM-powered Slay the Spire bot

#48

Post by worldsayshi »

worldsayshi wrote: post #28
raincole wrote: post #14

I don't think there is any reason to believe LLM is the best kind of AI to solve a game (unless the game is about natural languages). AlphaGo Zero isn't LLM. The Dota bot that beat pro gamers is not LLM. If this is an ad of Amazon Q, I'm not sure whether it's a good one.

An LLM is definitely the best tool for "solving" a game like Slay the Spire or any game that require strategic thinking. Sounds like a fun project and it would be crazy impressive if the solution was better than random chance.

What I meant to say:

>An LLM is definitely not the best tool for "solving" a game like Slay the Spire

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