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Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

fortune.com

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Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#41

Post by qeternity »

electrondood wrote: post #19

> Drivers can activate Mercedes’s technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. So this isn't any more of an advancement than Tesla's autopilot, which has been standard in every car for years. Basically if Tesla decided to self-insure when autopilot is eng…

No, this is all wrong. Mercedes is offering L3. Tesla FSD is partial L2.

The fact that Tesla doesn't self insure tells you everything you need to know.

Writing that off as some footnote is missing the forest for the trees.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#42

Post by ricardobeat »

mongol wrote: post #24
kuschku wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mercedes takes all legal responsibility for any accidents caused during autonomous operation. So far, autonomous operation is limited to relatively few situations, but most importantly it includes traffic jams (which is where human drivers quickly lose focus).

Who will be in line for jail sentences if it comes to that?

The vast majority of traffic accidents does not result in jailtime for anyone involved.

Since algorithms cannot have malice, the only offense left is negligence which for companies usually means a heavy fine and/or legal restraints, maybe prosecution.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#43

Post by ra7 »

matsemann wrote: post #35
electrondood wrote: post #19

> Drivers can activate Mercedes’s technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. So this isn't any more of an advancement than Tesla's autopilot, which has been standard in every car for years. Basically if Tesla decided to self-insure when autopilot is eng…

> Basically if Tesla decided to self-insure when autopilot is engaged, it would be the same. So it's not the same as Tesla. Reading Reddit now that FSD has been available to not just those having bought into the hype has been interesting. It seems more stressful to use than just driving yourself.

Can confirm Tesla FSD is more stressful than driving yourself. I’ve been using it for a few weeks since they offered everyone free trial.

Seems to be improved from the previous version, but still requires a ton of interventions every single drive. It’s cool to experience for people who are tech savvy, but nowhere near the realm of being useful and replacing your driving needs.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#44

Post by pb7 »

harles wrote: post #8

> As of April 11, there were 65 Mercedes autonomous vehicles available for sale in California ... One of those has since been sold, which marks the first sale of an autonomous Mercedes in California ... Those are pretty small numbers and strike me more as them testing the waters. It's neat to see some potential in the space after what felt like a total collapse with Waymo and Tesla especially not living up to expecta…

Grouping Waymo with anyone else including Cruise and Tesla is insane. You don’t know what you’re talking about frankly.

Waymo is better than anyone else out there by a mile. Source: I take one daily.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#45

Post by anthonymartinez »

harles wrote: post #30
AlotOfReading wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you referring to with Waymo? They were still operating in LA and SF as of this week. Do you mean Cruise (owned by GM)? In any case, the Mercedes system is what's known as a conditionally autonomous system. It can drive itself under specific conditions, but a human is still involved in operating the vehicle as soon as it exits that design domain. Waymo (and Cruise) are fully autonomous systems. Humans are not…

Waymo and Cruise have failed to scale and it doesn't look like they ever will. It's difficult to find a single article with the full context, but around 2017 as Waymo started giving limited rides to the public, everyone though the problem had been solved. There was a flood of startups hoping to be a strong second mover in the space, and then basically nothing. Expectations have shifted over time, but 7 years later an…

i also find it difficult to find data on how much they're scaling but anecdotally, i've been seeing a steady increase in waymo vehicles all year, here in tempe i encounter at least 3-4 every day it seems, driving in some pretty impressively heavy pedestrian traffic and on freeways too

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#46

Post by qznc »

kgwgk wrote: post #18
pound wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious why Waymo is considered to be not living up to expectations? They operate in limited number of places, but seem to be just fine driving there (of course some people will not like them regardless). Tesla - yes, not comparable..

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2017/10/report-waymo-aiming-to-... "Even if Waymo's schedule slips a few months and it introduces a self-driving car service in the middle of 2018 instead of late 2017, that will still give the company a multiple-year head start over most of its rivals. And it would confound skeptics who insist that full self-driving technology is still years away." https://www.ft.com/content/3355f5b0-539…

Waymo does not sell cars. They are in a different business.

I don’t really know the numbers but Waymo adds something like 50k worth of hardware into the cars. That is not a viable approach for consumer cars (Mercedes, Tesla, etc).

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#48

Post by bko »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #38
bko wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is Waymo pricing compared to Uber or other ride share? I originally thought autonomous cars would greatly reduce costs but considering the tens of billions dumped into these companies, they can't charge lower prices as they have to recoup investments.

It's a dollar or two more expensive than the corresponding Uber (non-shared) fare in my experience, so a bit less after tips. Keep in mind that the "true" price of these services probably isn't the biggest pricing factor right now. The cost is a way to manage demand, get some additional income, and investigate what the market will bear.

I doubt they're profitable though. From Bing:

> As of the latest available information, Waymo is not yet profitable. Alphabet’s Q2 2023 earnings report indicated that its “Other Bets” category, which includes Waymo, had revenues of $285 million and an operating loss of $813 million. This was a decrease in operating loss from $1.34 billion in the second quarter of 2022, but still significant. Over the last five years, “Other Bets” has generated $3 billion in cumulative revenue but incurred $20 billion in operating losses, with Waymo constituting the bulk of these losses.

I just don't see the end game. Are marginal rides not profitable even at Uber fates? Uber for instance was losing money because they were taking rev from profitable cities to give incentives and build up drivers in the new markets. But Waymo doesn't have that problem. Is it just GPU spend that they can eventually stop?

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#49

Post by ra7 »

bko wrote: post #32
homefree wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Waymo is amazing and has fully replaced Uber for me in SF. They're also expanding to the entire peninsula from SF down to Cupertino - you're out of date on this. Waymo driving in SF is way better than human. It's not timid either. This Mercedes post is marketing - it's not really what people consider autonomous given the constraints. > "Drivers can activate Mercedes's technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain cond…

How is Waymo pricing compared to Uber or other ride share? I originally thought autonomous cars would greatly reduce costs but considering the tens of billions dumped into these companies, they can't charge lower prices as they have to recoup investments.

In addition to what others have said about pricing, you need to compare Waymo with Uber Black, not UberX or shared rides. Waymo says they are aiming to be a premium service because the cars (Jaguar I-pace) are much nicer and, of course, there’s the novelty of not having a driver.

Re: Mercedes becomes the first automaker to sell autonomous cars in the U.S.

#50

Post by gitfan86 »

loeg wrote: post #31
electrondood wrote: post #19

> Drivers can activate Mercedes’s technology, called Drive Pilot, when certain conditions are met, including in heavy traffic jams, during the daytime, on specific California and Nevada freeways, and when the car is traveling less than 40 mph. So this isn't any more of an advancement than Tesla's autopilot, which has been standard in every car for years. Basically if Tesla decided to self-insure when autopilot is eng…

The important distinction is that the Mercedes does not demand the driver be paying attention and ready to take over immediately if the car decides to pop out of self-driving mode. Tesla does not offer that.

Are you sure about that? If it starts raining or the sun goes down, the system isn't going to alert the driver to take over?
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