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The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

theverge.com

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Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#41

Post by JumpCrisscross »

jasode wrote: post #39
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a random article. It’s been upvoted to the HN front page. > if JumpCrisscross explicitly told the reader that there would be a guaranteed mind-blowing insight payoff at the end I literally said it’s “a rewarding read.”

EDIT reply to your EDIT: >I literally said it’s “a rewarding read.” At the risk of stating the obvious, you wrote that reply to gp ctenb's comment _after_ he already gave up on the article and not _before_ . You'd have to tell him before he considered reading the article for it to be more analogous to The Marshmallow Test. In other words, he can't "fail" your Marshmallow Test if you never set up the proper conditions…

> lot of readers prefer not to slog through text like that

Sure? Lots of people don’t like dense books either. That’s fine. It’s weird that it prompts long-form complaint comments, but I admit that’s more fun than reading.

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#42

Post by eggy »

I guess I am biased to like the article including it's presentation, since I spent 6 years as a technical diver fixing underwater hydraulics and electrical systems, but at much shallower depths than the undersea cables. A buddy of mine is an ROV operator for pipe-laying ships. Cool stuff, big stuff, and lots of crazy stuff involved (seeing weird, unidentifiable living creatures quickly and blurrily cross in front of the ROV's camera, etc.).

I remained hidden below water as a technical show diver, while 1800 to 2000 audience members topside were getting impatient with a "technical delay" show pause. Typically, we were checking for faults in safety systems on underwater lifts, or for a potential hydraulics leak. We'd exit under the audience seating and go back to work after clearing the issue.

In a world filled with high-tech desk jobs, finance, and non-tangible products, and having grown up working class, I have great respect for all the people behind the scenes physically keeping our tenuous world together. Some of this became readily apparent with once invisible food delivery and restaurant workers during COVID. Healthcare workers obviously came into their own too, but so many other workers were still taken for granted.

I visualize a person huffing when their internet is slow or intermittent with a guy out to sea working during a storm or under difficult conditions and I laugh at the juxtaposition and perspective of both. I also do rope work and had to resort to doing more of it during COVID because my 'desk work' dried up a bit. Hanging 300ft off of a building with a black balaclava and mask with all-black rigging equipment in NJ doing a facade inspection across from the FBI building was certainly a memorable one. (Note: all-black equipment is standard for theater and entertainment work to stay hidden. I did confirm the FBI building people were informed there would be 4 guys on ropes that day. You never know!). I have been programming since 1978, but I have always had to have some physicality to my work in order to be satisfied. I guess it's having a more tangible connection to the world not abstracted away several layers.

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#43

Post by generalizations »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #35
generalizations wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given how many non-marshmallow articles are out there on the internet, and your apparent risk-reward ratio, I wonder if you're the one failing the test. And you haven't really justified your original claim that GP failed the marshmallow test.

> how many non-marshmallow articles are out there on the internet Most of the HN front page aren’t marshmallows. If you believe they are, it’s irrational to be here, let alone waste time commenting about it.

The contents of the HN front page is determined by the HN readers, and is not uniformly interesting to all of them. It is up to the article presented to the users to prove that it is worth the time to read and deserves to be on the front page, and this one doesn't to a great job of that.

The marshmallow test should have a follow up, where the person offering the marshmallow has to prove credibility, and the person receiving it has to decide if it's worth waiting. Would be an interesting view of human interactions.

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#44

Post by JumpCrisscross »

generalizations wrote: post #43
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how many non-marshmallow articles are out there on the internet Most of the HN front page aren’t marshmallows. If you believe they are, it’s irrational to be here, let alone waste time commenting about it.

The contents of the HN front page is determined by the HN readers, and is not uniformly interesting to all of them. It is up to the article presented to the users to prove that it is worth the time to read and deserves to be on the front page, and this one doesn't to a great job of that. The marshmallow test should have a follow up, where the person offering the marshmallow has to prove credibility, and the person re…

> marshmallow test should have a follow up, where the person offering the marshmallow has to prove credibility

This thread is becoming a parody of itself. I linked to literally this study above [1][2].

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40076494

[2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3730121/

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#45

Post by JumpCrisscross »

rjmill wrote: post #34
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the information density is too low You failed the marshmallow test [1]. There is a traditional, long-form article that presents a rewarding read. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_marshmallow_experim...

This article is ADHD-walled. The long load time, the weird slide show. Then the first page has a jittery animation that makes it impossible for me to actually focus on reading the article. It's less of a marshmallow thing (though I often fail that test) and more of an overwhelming impression that the article does not want me to read it.

> This article is ADHD-walled

I mean yes, folks with untreated ADHD would fail a marshmallow test. Marshmallow test failure doesn’t mean you’re a bad person. It simply signifies impatience and trust issues.

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#46

Post by el_benhameen »

SAS24 wrote: post #11

Telegeography (cited in the article) publishes an interactive submarine cable map: https://www.submarinecablemap.com You can even buy printed versions: https://shop.telegeography.com/collections/telecom-maps/

The submarine cable map has long been on my want-to-splurge-but-can’t-justify list. Would make great office art.

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#47

Post by tertius »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #41
jasode wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EDIT reply to your EDIT: >I literally said it’s “a rewarding read.” At the risk of stating the obvious, you wrote that reply to gp ctenb's comment _after_ he already gave up on the article and not _before_ . You'd have to tell him before he considered reading the article for it to be more analogous to The Marshmallow Test. In other words, he can't "fail" your Marshmallow Test if you never set up the proper conditions…

> lot of readers prefer not to slog through text like that Sure? Lots of people don’t like dense books either. That’s fine. It’s weird that it prompts long-form complaint comments, but I admit that’s more fun than reading.

Level of annoyance = level of complaint. It's not weird, it's to be expected.

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#48

Post by alistairjudson »

My Dad was an ROV technician for a brief period in the early 2000s, he got made redundant in early 2002 just after 9/11, and the dot com bubble bursting.

On his last of the only two trips he made, he was based in Recife in northern Brazil. The ship was just there, on call, ready to respond to any breakages.

My Mum, sister, and I were lucky enough to be flown out to Brazil for Christmas 2001, and it's something I'll never forget. I got to fuse bits of fibre-optic cable together under a microscope, drive an ROV about in the harbour a bit, and stand in some massive cable drums (all incredibly exciting for an eight year old child). It was the first time I went abroad, and the first time my Mum flew on a plane.

It's amazing how much damage the dot com bubble bursting did to the industry, and the people who worked in it (I don't think my Dad ever really recovered from it). I believe until very recently there was so much fibre laid during the dot com boom, that we didn't really need to lay much more.

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#49

Post by badbart14 »

Great read about a often overlooked part of global infrastructure. I personally liked the presentation style but get its not for everyone. Highly recommend the latest episode of the Vergecast where they talk more about the undersea cable world: https://youtu.be/bJnt87JgKMU

Re: The invisible seafaring industry that keeps the internet afloat

#50

Post by pimlottc »

eggy wrote: post #42

I guess I am biased to like the article including it's presentation, since I spent 6 years as a technical diver fixing underwater hydraulics and electrical systems, but at much shallower depths than the undersea cables. A buddy of mine is an ROV operator for pipe-laying ships. Cool stuff, big stuff, and lots of crazy stuff involved (seeing weird, unidentifiable living creatures quickly and blurrily cross in front of…

What sort of shows were these that you worked on as a technical diver? Is this a Seaworld-type of situation? But not sure why they would need underwater lifts.
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