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A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

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Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#41

Post by kqr »

light_hue_1 wrote: post #30

> To solve this problem Etak invented ‘augmented dead reckoning’. This used a process to match the position given by the navigation sensors to a topologically correct electronic map. Whenever the vehicle turned you made the assumption that you’re driving on a road. At that point the location could be ‘snapped’ back to the road and the error from the sensors could be reset. This technique was later adopted by all navi…

This was my sense as well. The device looks and is described like something I would not be surprised to find on a 1970s warship or spy plane to aid navigation. Not with street maps, specifically, of course, but something similar!

Still impressive to get it into a consumer-sized (and almost consumer-priced) box.

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#42

Post by toast0 »

RicoElectrico wrote: post #36

> The second key invention was a ‘heading up’, moving map display. This meant that the vehicle remained at the center of the screen and the map moved and turned under the vehicle. What you saw ahead of you in the windshield was what was displayed on the screen. This proved highly intuitive. Later on they talk about "heads up" map digitizing, did this mean the map rotated as the operator digitized the street? Seems qu…

I don't think so... I think heads up for the digitizing indicates that the digital map was overlayed on top of the (scanned) source image? As opposed to digitizing from a paper map where you have the map on a surface in front of you, and a digital map hopefully on a screen in front of you (but they did say some were digitizing blind before this?) and you're trying to get the digitized version right by looking between the two.

For the in car map, a vector CRT and vector data makes rotation reasonable. Much less hard than rotating rasterized scanned images on a PC with no rotation acceleration.

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#43

Post by 082349872349872 »

Thtjifiti wrote: post #37
SamBam wrote: post #17

The name is perfect. "Etak" refers to a system of navigation used by Micronesian and Polynesian seafarers to navigate from island to island in the vast Pacific Ocean. Much like this device, it operates by "augmented dead reckoning" (as it says in TFA). The etak system of navigation involves navigating by stars and ocean swells to get the heading, but a key issue when navigating by dead reckoning over long distances i…

This sounds very romantic, but they were mostly at drift. Most very using rafts without any form of propulsion. "Navigation" across wast distances was one way road with no return ticket. They had to do it for overpopulation, not for some explorative spirit.

Granted, overpopulation drove much, but if it was all one way drifting, then why would the Hawai'ians have a channel named "the way to Tahiti"?

see also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hōkūleʻa

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#44

Post by sllabres »

KingOfCoders wrote: post #38

Bosch EVA (1983) "The prototype driver navigation system was unveiled in Hildesheim on June 21, 1983, and it proved groundbreaking: EVA was the first ever experimental autonomous navigation system." https://www.bosch.com/stories/eva-first-navigation-system-fr... (no map, but display and address to address with route finding)

Very interesting, i've just yesterday wrote about the successor of EVA, the TravelPilot IDS [1] which was commercially available. But I didn't knew that there was another system 5 years ahead.

Both (Etak and TravelPilot IDS) seems to use kind of a vector display. Does someone know if this is for better resolution or better contrast, or both or if there is another reason?

https://www.bosch-presse.de/pressportal/de/en/navigation-sys...

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#45

Post by toast0 »

rescbr wrote: post #11
teeray wrote: post #6

What is the style of UI used in that device and why did it have that characteristic angular look? I’ve seen it on other devices of the same vintage.

The style is an artifact/limitation of using a vector display. Compare to today’s ubiquity of a raster display. Why did they choose to use a vector display? Maybe to decrease cost and avoid placing framebuffer memory? Maybe rendering maps directly to a vector display could be faster by skipping a rasterization process? Any other reason?

I think a vector display makes it easier to rotate the map.

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#46

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

Animats wrote: post #22
skykooler wrote: post #3

What happened to the original units? Are there any left?

I have several of the gyro and inclinometer units, and the magnetometer compass, somewhere. The gyro was a motor spinning a flexible metal plate. As the vehicle moved, the plate would flex, and sensing the plate's position gave a rough turn rate. The inclinometer was a little sealed cup with four capacitive sensing plates. I was looking into using this for a robotics application, but it was too big for an R/C car siz…

I'm surprised they had a gyro (the article also only mentions a compass, which makes sense to remove accumulated errors in heading). I would have expected the wheel sensors to provide data of similar quality as a gyro back then, without the cost.

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#47

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

The article claims that the "match roads by turns" technique "was later adopted by all navigation apps". Does anyone know if this is true? My impression was that they rely on GPS position only for positioning, even though modern phone hardware should give really nice gyroscope/accelerometer data.

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#48

Post by KingOfCoders »

sllabres wrote: post #44
KingOfCoders wrote: post #38

Bosch EVA (1983) "The prototype driver navigation system was unveiled in Hildesheim on June 21, 1983, and it proved groundbreaking: EVA was the first ever experimental autonomous navigation system." https://www.bosch.com/stories/eva-first-navigation-system-fr... (no map, but display and address to address with route finding)

Very interesting, i've just yesterday wrote about the successor of EVA, the TravelPilot IDS [1] which was commercially available. But I didn't knew that there was another system 5 years ahead. Both (Etak and TravelPilot IDS) seems to use kind of a vector display. Does someone know if this is for better resolution or better contrast, or both or if there is another reason? https://www.bosch-presse.de/pressportal/de/en/…

There is no conventional resolution to vector displays (though monitors have limitations).

Reminds me at one point in time I owned a Vectrex, which had much cleaner lines than any other console, even much better than my later, much more expensive Amiga or (early) PCs.

"This Vectrex does things I never thought possible" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Dv15YRAmzM

Only got that feeling back with Retina displays.

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#49

Post by saulpw »

delichon wrote: post #25
neilv wrote: post #19

1991 home video demo of an Etak, in a custom housing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHCCjlSWbHE?t=1m50s (Bet they didn't think at the time that techies of the future would be watching it in 2024 on the ubiquitous global data network.)

We had a ubiquitous continental data network back then. You can see it in operation in the old historical film, "You've Got Mail". The floppy installation disks were so plentiful they probably form a sedimentary stratum future geologists will use to identify the era.

That was 1995. In 1991, we had the ubiquitous intercontinental phone network, but overseas connections were >$1/minute and data rate was only 9600 baud.

Re: A curious phenomenon called 'Etak'

#50

Post by LeoPanthera »

tgsovlerkhgsel wrote: post #47

The article claims that the "match roads by turns" technique "was later adopted by all navigation apps". Does anyone know if this is true? My impression was that they rely on GPS position only for positioning, even though modern phone hardware should give really nice gyroscope/accelerometer data.

Virtually all car navigation software, or phone GPS apps in driving mode, will "snap" to a nearby road if the GPS indicates that you are traveling parallel to one. This compensates for minor GPS reception errors.

This can occasionally, in rare situations, be a problem, if you have frontage roads very close to a highway, they can sometimes get confused about which road you are actually on.

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