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Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

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Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#41

Post by baby_souffle »

freedomben wrote: post #38
phonon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do that with Kindle as well...?

I've been boycotting Kindle for quite a few years now, so I genuinely don't know what that experience is like now. At least the last time I used it though, there was a pretty clear difference between my epubs and Kindle-provided content in the way the UI treated it and the user experience when consuming it. Are they fairly equivalent experiences now?

> Are they fairly equivalent experiences now?

Yeah. It’s been improving slowly for a while but it did seem to pick up just before they announced the scribe. Uploading your own documents to be able to mark them up is a key differentiation and it would have been panned if that wasn’t synced

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#42

Post by plorg »

freedomben wrote: post #32
VS1999 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever someone invokes the "terms of service" I just get annoyed. I live in the US where we have absolutely no consumer rights and every company can put anything they want in the ToS or EULA, and if it violates the law they aren't punished (such as illegal warranty restrictions). Most EULAs even have a clause that says something like "if any part of this contract is illegal, ignore it and the rest is still enforced…

I agree with your points here, but this seems like a two-wrongs-make-a-right type of argument. Basically, companies (like Amazon) don't have to honor their agreements, so neither do I. I agree that's a fair standard, but it does feel a little ... suboptimal to say "I can and will lie because I expect that they are lying."

It actually does not sound like that argument - that sounds like an argument you are making up.

The argument is, "I have no meaningful choice in the terms that I agree to, hence my agreement to those terms cannot be freely given. But I do have choice in whether to follow those terms and a means by which to operate outside of them. So I will ignore the terms that I find unnecessarily restrictive (subject to assessment of risk) and that may be the only actual influence I can exert in the situation."

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#43

Post by phonon »

freedomben wrote: post #38
phonon wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can do that with Kindle as well...?

I've been boycotting Kindle for quite a few years now, so I genuinely don't know what that experience is like now. At least the last time I used it though, there was a pretty clear difference between my epubs and Kindle-provided content in the way the UI treated it and the user experience when consuming it. Are they fairly equivalent experiences now?

I use the Android phone app for Kindle. Sending an ePub to it using the Windows "Send to Kindle" program[0] is really easy, and I don't notice any different user experience in the phone app when I pull up my library.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/sendtokindle/pc

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#44

Post by bee_rider »

kstrauser wrote: post #19
edent wrote: post #2

I've used this several times to read books I've legally purchased. An indispensable bit of software.

I adamantly believe that this is morally and ethically OK in all situations. If you buy a copy of a book, it's your right to read it on any device of yours you want, even ones that haven't been manufactured yet. I bought a copy of Stephen King's "The Stand" 30 years ago and it's still on a bookshelf here ready for me to read at any time. If I'd bought an ebook copy of it instead, I'm just as ethically permitted to re…

I think you are ethically correct to do so. I even think you would be ethically correct to lend out your only copy (as long as you really were certain that it was and would remain the only copy, so, lending it out to somebody who was completely trustworthy).

The only thing I question about all this ethics-wise: is it really ethical to purchase the item in the first place? I feel bad about all my Amazon books at this point, I’ve spent a bunch of money supporting an ecosystem that harms people who aren’t technically savvy enough to break DRM (actually, technically this includes me, I’m sure I could, but I haven’t looked into it or put the software together!). I do worry that solutions like this make the whole bad situation more bearable for the most-engaged segment, who could otherwise be leading the charge to something better.

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#45

Post by bee_rider »

GaggiX wrote: post #18
szundi wrote: post #3

Is it stealing when someone buys a book legally and then downloads it drm-free to save it for future use? (As should be normal)

It wouldn't be stealing if you just pirated it, at least in court.

Pirating ebooks would be a way bigger crime than just stealing, but fortunately they are almost never shipped by boat, so people who want an illegitimate copy of an ebook don’t have to jump on board, kill a bunch of people, and steal that booty.

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#46

Post by adamomada »

mminer237 wrote: post #36
alwayslikethis wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is downloading ever copyright infringement? I was under the impression that it is the uploading, i.e. distributing that is illegal, not receiving the copy.

Receiving a copy is unquestionably infringement. You're copying it to your computer. Even pirate streams are copying it to your RAM.

It’s not that simple

> For example, you can use copyrighted work for the purpose of research, private study, education, parody or satire. You can also reproduce copyrighted work to ensure interoperability of computer programs or for backup copies.

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#47

Post by daveoc64 »

WolfeReader wrote: post #22
kstrauser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I adamantly believe that this is morally and ethically OK in all situations. If you buy a copy of a book, it's your right to read it on any device of yours you want, even ones that haven't been manufactured yet. I bought a copy of Stephen King's "The Stand" 30 years ago and it's still on a bookshelf here ready for me to read at any time. If I'd bought an ebook copy of it instead, I'm just as ethically permitted to re…

(Devil's advocate here) When you made an Amazon account, and each time you purchase one of their ebooks, you agree to their "Terms of Service", which states that you won't do some of the things you want to do with your ebook. Amazon wouldn't sell/license you the book if you told them you were going to break the DRM and read it on a Kobo. In effect, you're lying to Amazon in order to use their property in a way they s…

>Can I ask you to consider buying your ebooks from a better vendor? Kobo is a good choice; they state whether or not a given book is DRM-free or not

Amazon also does state when a book is DRM-free, but you might have missed it as it's not clear.

Kindle Books that are DRM free will show "Simultaneous device usage : Unlimited" in the "Product details" section.

Books with DRM will either not list this if they have the default DRM device limit of 6, or will list a specific number if the book has a specific limit set by the publisher (usually expensive textbooks).

Example of DRM-free book:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B088P9Q6BB#detailBullets_feature_d...

Example of book with DRM (default limit of 6 devices):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00B7NPRY8#detailBullets_feature_d...

Example of book with DRM (publisher-set limit of 3 devices):

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UGE1DGA#detailBullets_feature_d...

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#48

Post by codegladiator »

freedomben wrote: post #32
VS1999 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever someone invokes the "terms of service" I just get annoyed. I live in the US where we have absolutely no consumer rights and every company can put anything they want in the ToS or EULA, and if it violates the law they aren't punished (such as illegal warranty restrictions). Most EULAs even have a clause that says something like "if any part of this contract is illegal, ignore it and the rest is still enforced…

I agree with your points here, but this seems like a two-wrongs-make-a-right type of argument. Basically, companies (like Amazon) don't have to honor their agreements, so neither do I. I agree that's a fair standard, but it does feel a little ... suboptimal to say "I can and will lie because I expect that they are lying."

> because I expect that they are lying

because I /KNOW/ that they are lying

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#49

Post by rroose »

bee_rider wrote: post #44
kstrauser wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I adamantly believe that this is morally and ethically OK in all situations. If you buy a copy of a book, it's your right to read it on any device of yours you want, even ones that haven't been manufactured yet. I bought a copy of Stephen King's "The Stand" 30 years ago and it's still on a bookshelf here ready for me to read at any time. If I'd bought an ebook copy of it instead, I'm just as ethically permitted to re…

I think you are ethically correct to do so. I even think you would be ethically correct to lend out your only copy (as long as you really were certain that it was and would remain the only copy, so, lending it out to somebody who was completely trustworthy). The only thing I question about all this ethics-wise: is it really ethical to purchase the item in the first place? I feel bad about all my Amazon books at this…

Same here. I try to avoid Amazon as much as possible. In the Netherlands we do have 'Bol' but it basically boils down to the same thing: giving your money to one big player.

Another option is getting it at the Dutch Online Library but they have a limited selection.

In some cases you can buy the book directly from the author (like Derek Sivers) but that's more an exception than the rule.

I really wished there were more small e-book stores. Maybe focused on specific genres but so far I have been unsuccesful finding any.

Re: Libgourou: A Free Implementation of Adobe's Adept DRM on ePub/PDF Files

#50

Post by zaptheimpaler »

kstrauser wrote: post #19
edent wrote: post #2

I've used this several times to read books I've legally purchased. An indispensable bit of software.

I adamantly believe that this is morally and ethically OK in all situations. If you buy a copy of a book, it's your right to read it on any device of yours you want, even ones that haven't been manufactured yet. I bought a copy of Stephen King's "The Stand" 30 years ago and it's still on a bookshelf here ready for me to read at any time. If I'd bought an ebook copy of it instead, I'm just as ethically permitted to re…

Pretty sure everyone agrees with that, even the DRM makers. It's just that in practice there is no way to allow a user to fully own a file, allow sharing that file with a few friends but disallow uploading it to a torrent site and sharing with the whole world. I get HN hates DRM and for good reason but im sympathetic to the problem the ebook distributors are trying to solve. It only takes 1 person uploading a file to the internet to cost the author thousands of sales. Some people say there is no evidence that piracy costs the content creators money which just sounds unbelievable for most content outside of a few mega hits.
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