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'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

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Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#41
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Really? I guess they're just "following orders" from the AI then. What a shameful response, if Russia did this or if the roles were reversed you'd be appalled.

There are pretty clearly cases where non-combatant deaths in war are necessary -- for example if you are in a total war situation as in WWII.

People can and do argue about the morality of the Tokyo firebombings and Dresden and Hiroshima and Nagasaki where it was largely purely civilian populations in cities that were attacked, but I think it's _fairly_ non-controversial that in a total war that industrial sites and weapons manufacturing facilities and so on are valid targets in a war situation, and they are generally staffed by non-combatants.

The rule in the geneva conventions is: "In so far as objects are concerned, military objectives are limited to those objects which by their nature, location, purpose or use make an effective contribution to military action and whose total or partial destruction, capture or neutralization, in the circumstances ruling at the time, offers a definite military advantage."

Which encompasses quite a large category of non-combatants that are likely to be in the area of those "objects".

edit: not making any kind of judgement or statement at all about this particular situation -- just clarifying in general the rules of war involving non-combatants.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#43
> “This is unparalleled, in my memory,” said one intelligence officer who used Lavender, adding that they had more faith in a “statistical mechanism” than a grieving soldier. “Everyone there, including me, lost people on October 7. The machine did it coldly. And that made it easier.”

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#44

Probably going to be flame city in this thread, but I think it’s worth asking: is it possible that even with collateral damage (killing women and children because of hallucinations) that AI based killing technology is actually more ethical and safer than warfare that doesn’t use AI. But AI is really just another name for math, so maybe it’s not a useful conversation. Militaries use advanced tech and that’s nothing ne…

> AI based killing technology is actually more ethical and safer than warfare that doesn’t use AI

No. It's just a tool. People still configure the parameters and ultimately make decisions. Likewise modern missile do not make conflicts more or less ethical just because they require advanced physics.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#45
post #39

[flagged]

Two can play that game: if the Israeli government didn't want their civilians to be killed, then they wouldn't occupy Palestine. As they don't care for israeli lives, they conscript every adult into their military, making them all valid targets.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#47

Two sources said that during the early weeks of the war they were permitted to kill 15 or 20 civilians during airstrikes on low-ranking militants. Attacks on such targets were typically carried out using unguided munitions known as “dumb bombs”, the sources said, destroying entire homes and killing all their occupants. The world should not forget this.

Definitely Palestinians are not going to forget this.

[dead]

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#48
post #39

[flagged]

Killing these civilians is one way to ensure that these people will be reliable Hamas supporters for years to come. Absolutely crooked that Israel is treating Hamas as though it was a legitimate representative of the Palestinian people and fully responsible for them. This isn't some kind of democracy we're talking about.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#49
post #3

There is no justification for killing noncombatants, even if AI told you you could.

The use of AI and the authorisation to kill civilians are unrelated parts of this story. Nowhere does it mention that the AI is being used to justify killing of civilians.

Re: 'Lavender': The AI machine directing Israel's bombing in Gaza

#50

As bad as this story makes the Israelis sound, it still reads like ass-covering to make it sound like they were at least trying to kill militants. It's been clear from the start that they've been targeting journalists, medical staff and anyone involved in aid distribution, with the goal of rendering life in Gaza impossible.

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