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Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

gizmodo.com

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Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#41

Post by diggan »

ribosometronome wrote: post #22
speff wrote: post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

The article they link for that isn't readable without subscription. Were they actually labeling data live? That sounds like effectively a secret concierge following you around and writing down what you're getting & like it would be pretty difficult to keep up with. Otherwise, labeled data and machine learning kind of go hand and hand. It's not wild that Amazon would dogfood its own product while creating training dat…

It does sound like a person was watching the shopper live:

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. The cashiers were simply moved off-site, and they watched you as you shopped.

But who knows, tech articles are so inaccurate that it might as well have been some misunderstanding regarding how the labeling/training was done.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#42

Post by jeffwask »

noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

Stop and Shop (in New England) had hand scanners you could do this with 15 years ago. I have been shocked that the technology didn't spread. It was so easy to scan and bag then just plug the scanner in at checkout and pay.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#43

Post by _xivi »

phh wrote: post #19
noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

We've had that in France for years, and noone uses that as far as I can tell. The main usage I see is mainly self checkout. Please note that I'm biased towards dense areas. We have on-the-go scanning in super stores as well, I feel it's not being used but I could be wrong

> We've had that in France for years, and noone uses that as far as I can tell.

Why not? what makes it unpopular?

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#44

Post by whyenot »

"Ginger Market" on the SJSU campus has attempted to use a similar "Just Walk Out" approach. It has not worked well. I've been double charged, charged for items I did not take, not charged for items I've taken, etc. The refund process was also a pain. It was so bad that they had to stop using it last spring, although they claim they are going to give it another go.

Why even bother? Self checkout or a cashier work so much better and I have a hard time believing they are less expensive. The store is plastered with cameras. Seriously, there must be 100 cameras in the place. That's a lot of video to process, which has got to be costly, whether it is a machine or people who are reviewing it.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#45

Post by mikehollinger »

speff wrote: post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts.

Yup.

I got the chance to go shopping at one in 2018 (so it's been a while). You could tell there was some "reconciliation" happening, because your receipt didn't show up until 20-30 minutes after you left. My guess is that this was some person via mechanical turk crawling thru the data and indexing what you -really- bought.

Of course, my colleague and I (who were working on computer vision at the time) did stuff like take our bags off, put them in the middle of the floor, and roll a can of soda into the bag, just to see what would happen.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#46

Post by Cheer2171 »

saddist0 wrote: post #10
speff wrote: post #3

> Though it seemed completely automated, Just Walk Out relied on more than 1,000 people in India watching and labeling videos to ensure accurate checkouts. That line was unintentionally hilarious to me. Like looking inside a TV and finding a bunch of fast-working little people drawing images.

It isn't that bad an idea. Imagine that next time you are drunk, you can hire a driver who will drive you back home remotely (along with some AI to stop the car in case connection goes away).

Except all these trillion dollar valuations in the AI bubble are based on the belief that AI is replacing humans, not just outsourcing to cheaper humans.

Of course outsourcing to cheaper humans can be great. But that's not what tech is shilling to the world as "AI" right now.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#48

Post by weinzierl »

phh wrote: post #19
noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

We've had that in France for years, and noone uses that as far as I can tell. The main usage I see is mainly self checkout. Please note that I'm biased towards dense areas. We have on-the-go scanning in super stores as well, I feel it's not being used but I could be wrong

We have it in Germany for years too (in densely populated areas) and my subjective impression is that next to none was using it for a long time but that it's picking up slowly.

For one thing I think these things take years for broad acceptance and for another the current scanners with their bright and large displays are just what was needed to make it attractive for the young and elderly.

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#49

Post by throw1230 »

saghm wrote: post #38
noodlesUK wrote: post #6

I think that the scan-as-you-shop style systems are definitely the next realistic step for grocery stores. I really like using them, as they allow me to put stuff directly into my bags as I go. I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan a…

> I think a further improvement on a system like that would be to use the cheap RFID tech (UHF EPC) so that when you walk through the anti-theft barriers, the system knows exactly what you got, and then there's no need to scan anything. Isn't that basically what Amazon had claimed they were doing here, except apparently maybe they weren't?

Nope, they were using camera technology and QR codes

Re: Amazon ditches 'just walk out' checkouts at its grocery stores

#50

Post by fhub »

k8svet wrote: post #31

I feel like Sams Club has this down pretty well. You self-scan as you shop. You checkout as you walk towards the door. You flash a QR code to them and then they quick scan spot check items to make sure you weren't missing anything.

FWIW, this was the fourth attempt by Walmart to get Scan'n'Go working well (each one a complete reboot). It was majority designed and built by two talented developers who were acqui-hired and managed at at distance by another acqui-hire developer.
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