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Goodbye, MongoDB

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Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#41

Post by debacle »

getsat wrote: post #35
debacle wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love Postgres, but I'm building something for OSS use and most unzip-and-deploy devs don't know how to set up Postgres. Any additional information that you might be able to give me that might convince me?

Ah. If your target is people who aren't going to be reading docs, I don't think any DB is really preferable. :) Any more details about the project, or is it under wraps?

It's basically a simple blogging platform, going to be released OSS.

Most devs know how to get MySQL running without too much thought, but many don't even know what Postgres is.

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#42

Post by laconian »

kennystone wrote: post #9
Uchikoma wrote: post #5

Wow, how many "Goodbye, MongoDB" stories are coming? The last days had several ones. Not sure if this is already a trend?

The trend is this: any loved technology that's been around a little while (Rails, Node, Mongo, etc) makes for dramatic farewells on hackernews. It's not unlike supermarket tabloids.

"Object oriented programming is dead" "Stop subclassing right now" "Java Is A Ghetto"

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#43

Post by dkhenry »

This reads more like a rant then an actual discussion of problems the company was having with MongoDB. There is a place for valid criticism, but this is the polar opposite. I am actually more interested in the fact that this made it to the front page so fast tehn the actual content of the article. Are there so many people upset with Mongo that even something as poorly done as this rant can get publicity ?

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#44

Post by amalag »

debacle wrote: post #28
getsat wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give PostgreSQL a shot if you're still considering databases.

I love Postgres, but I'm building something for OSS use and most unzip-and-deploy devs don't know how to set up Postgres. Any additional information that you might be able to give me that might convince me?

Well with Postgres you can include an installation in your distribution, with MySQL you cannot.

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#45

Post by rbrcurtis »

jasonmccay wrote: post #36
bunderbunder wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was wondering the same. It's pretty standard for databases to not be very good about sharing with others, memory-wise. That's why having a dedicated server is such a popular best practice for non-puny applications. And MongoDB says it's not designed for puny applications right there in its name.

There are fairly straight-forward ways to control memory usage in MongoDB, especially if this is a concern for you. All you need is a bit of OS know-how and it works just fine. We run both large (multi-shard clusters) and small memory (500MB - 2GB) use instances of MongoDB and have no problems. It would be good to have developers acknowledge that, perhaps, they may not have all the information instead of declaring th…

Care to explain how, say in linux?

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#46

Post by drats »

heelhook wrote: post #37

"My essage to companies building applications on top of MongoDB: assigned smart people to MongoDB and don't leave the database work to people that can hardly spell their name or that can just count to three. Yes, this paragraph is harsh and does not comply with diversity but it is true and reality. The number of people that should not do any database related work, people without reasonable background, people lacking…

I also like "essage" and "assigned smart people" instead of "assign smart people" in a sentence talking about intelligence and spelling. He's probably not a native speaker but that only excuses the second bit, and only partly.

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#47

Post by zachanker »

dreadpirateryan wrote: post #16
sdm wrote: post #6

While some of the author's criticisms are valid, some of them are completely wrong: > Having no option to perform an operation comparable to UPDATE table SET foo=bar WHERE.... What? db.collection.update does exactly this. See: http://www.mongodb.org/display/DOCS/Updating#Updating-update... MongoDB fit a nice niche for a read heavy mid-scalability db solution. Every DB has it's niche. Trying to use it outside of what…

Agreed. I found the mapreduce criticisms to be a little off: > Now instead of fixing a bad implementation or fixing the underlaying architectural issues, MongoDB is moving to Hadoop. I don't think that's accurate. They have a new "aggregation framework" coming that is meant to replace mapreduce. It could be a wrapper around hadoop, but I couldn't find anything documented about that. I completely agree that a blocking…

The aggregation framework is meant to fill a gap between SQLs SUM, COUNT, AVG, etc without requiring a full map/reduce. The Hadoop integrations are unrelated and are just a nice little bonus that they added.

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#48

Post by PaulHoule »

Hell yeah.

From what I've seen of MongoDB I'm not impressed at all. In some carefully controlled cases, performance would be acceptable, but change anything at all (even the order that data is inserted) and it just sucks.

For one particular application, the performance difference between MySQL and Mongo was like the difference between the Space Shuttle and a Chevy Sonic.

Re: Goodbye, MongoDB

#50

Post by rdtsc »

zacharyvoase wrote: post #12
kennystone wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The trend is this: any loved technology that's been around a little while (Rails, Node, Mongo, etc) makes for dramatic farewells on hackernews. It's not unlike supermarket tabloids.

I disagree. The trend is this: any hype has an equal and opposite anti-hype. 10gen have spent (probably) millions of dollars and countless hours representing MongoDB and singing its praises in various media (conferences, user groups, Web, etc.). If you do so, you need to expect equally fierce reactions when people realise your claims are unsubstantiated (or, at the very least, not as universal and problem-free as you…

Very good point. I never thought about it that way.

I have been criticizing them for their default settings (no response to write requests, safety turned off by default) for a while.

But actually it is not as much for settings themselves, but for lack of a clear red flashing warning on their front page. As their default settings could (still can?) lead to silent data corruption. The worst possible thing to happen to a database. That is shady and shitty practice if you ask me.

They are trying to market their technology to other developers, I expect them to at least try to be honest and open about the characteristics of their product. If they treat other developers like they are customers for male enhancement pills in 4am commercials, then I think they should also expect some backlash from said developers when they choose Mongo and then hit all the hidden assumptions and un-delivered promises.

Sure it is in the fine print. But if it is important, why not put it in the big print. It is a lot less painful for everyone in the long term.

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