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GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

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Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#41

Does anything currently beat GPT-4? I saw some comments here say to check out Claude. From what I can tell, Claude hasn't figure out yet how to do the whole "generate Python code and run it in a Juptyer notebook" for math yet.

Claude Opus (largest v3 model) consistently outperforms GPT-4 for me. Better at following prompts, _feels_ much better.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#42
I lead AI teams at my company. I've advised leadership against any kind of training / fine-tuning anything.

We're not in the business of training models. We will never be as good as OpenAI / Anthropic etc.

Where the real value in applications is smarter prompting techniques and RAG. There is a lot of room at the bottom in doing "dumb" things and simply feeding models with the right context to deliver customer value.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#43

Does anything currently beat GPT-4? I saw some comments here say to check out Claude. From what I can tell, Claude hasn't figure out yet how to do the whole "generate Python code and run it in a Juptyer notebook" for math yet.

I don’t know what the people who say Claude 3 is better than GPT-4 are using it for. It’s been consistently worse for everything I’ve thrown at it.

Debugging a Python function this morning. Claude 3 Opus failed completely. GPT-4 found the bug, as well as two others I hadn’t even been looking for.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#44
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A low-tech example to create a good blog post title for submission to Hacker News would be a system prompt like: You are an expert copywriter. Write five distinct blog post titles optimized for high clickthrough for Hacker News for the article the user provides. Your response must follow the style of these titles: - The ü/ü Conundrum - Why isn't preprint review being adopted? - Majority of web apps could just run on…

interesting thank you. intuitively, prompting like this to get an answer seems basically like the first part of a fine tuning process (more exemplars). what is your thought here behind why reinforcing good output via a loss optimization is worse than the one shot example? does the model start to over fit at some point towards some local minima? and this is avoided in this scenario?

Prompt engineering in general is necessary because LLMs optimize for the average output, and average output is not good. So LLMs need a slight nudge.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#45
Note that the benchmarks used for comparison are basically measuring the model’s ability to understand financial content. In other words, reading comprehension for English, just in a specific domain. It shouldn’t really be surprising that a strong generalist model performs well here.

On the other hand, GPT-4 actually did worse on the NER task - labelling and tagging terms used in the text - vs their finetuned model. I assume the finetuned model was better at using the specific labels they were targeting.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#46
post #6
post #2

$10 Million(M), not $10 Billion(B).

Not looking forward for the times when an AI costs as much as an aircraft carrier.

At least with an aircraft carrier you can make your money back by holding a small country for ransom, har har.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#47

Does anything currently beat GPT-4? I saw some comments here say to check out Claude. From what I can tell, Claude hasn't figure out yet how to do the whole "generate Python code and run it in a Juptyer notebook" for math yet.

According to Chatbot Arena where people vote on responses blindly and an ELO rating is determined for each LLM, gpt4 is on top slightly ahead of Claude 3 Opus

https://huggingface.co/spaces/lmsys/chatbot-arena-leaderboar...

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#48
post #42

I lead AI teams at my company. I've advised leadership against any kind of training / fine-tuning anything. We're not in the business of training models. We will never be as good as OpenAI / Anthropic etc. Where the real value in applications is smarter prompting techniques and RAG. There is a lot of room at the bottom in doing "dumb" things and simply feeding models with the right context to deliver customer value.

This. I work in a startup and told upper management we need to keep focusing on ML models that bring tangible benefits to our customers and then, try to integrate LLMs into their current flow instead of pivoting completely to LLMs. It seems they valued the input and now we're going for a hybrid approach.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#49
post #42

I lead AI teams at my company. I've advised leadership against any kind of training / fine-tuning anything. We're not in the business of training models. We will never be as good as OpenAI / Anthropic etc. Where the real value in applications is smarter prompting techniques and RAG. There is a lot of room at the bottom in doing "dumb" things and simply feeding models with the right context to deliver customer value.

It is trivial to fine tune these days. RAG is already irrelevant with large context windows.

Re: GPT-4, without specialized training, beat a GPT-3.5 class model that cost $10M

#50
post #35

Extremely hot LLM take: You will often get better results with few-shot prompting (with good examples) on a modern LLM than with a finetuned LLM. Finetuning was the best option for weaker LLMs with lower context windows (e.g. the original GPT-3): both problems have been solved nowadays. The cost economics are much better with few-shot prompting to modern LLMs too: input tokens are super cheap (especially with the rec…

That might be true for finetuning ChatGPT 3.5, but if you can finetune a small model (7B or less) to perform on par with GPT-4, while being faster and private, that’s a different story.

You definitely can't in the general case (for example, your 7B model is never going to be able to help much with coding, fine tuning or no).

It can make sense if you have a particularly simple use case.

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