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Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

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Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#41

Post by rand846633 »

vram22 wrote: post #35
hnhg wrote: post #17

I am surprised to see Germany so high. Germany is a hostile place to start a company, especially if you are not German, not least because there is the issue of a very harsh and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of around 30% of the current valuation of your worldwide holdings in companies. The rules for this became even harsher in 2021. I have obvi…

What's the reason for this?

It’s an alternative approach to what the USA achieves with their worldwide taxation.

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#42

Post by rwmj »

hnhg wrote: post #17

I am surprised to see Germany so high. Germany is a hostile place to start a company, especially if you are not German, not least because there is the issue of a very harsh and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of around 30% of the current valuation of your worldwide holdings in companies. The rules for this became even harsher in 2021. I have obvi…

I wonder why the EU hasn't clamped down on it? Surely it is incompatible with the Internal Market (unless by "leaving Germany" you meant "leaving the EU").

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#43

Post by coldtea »

vram22 wrote: post #34
BillyTheKing wrote: post #5

I'm half Greek, so obviously a little bias. But would love to see a more thriving tech scene in Athens. It's a cool city, with great night-life, great restaurants, and stunning places nearby, not yet super gentrified and obviously also has some archaeological sites. But it's not just 2000 years old history (yes, it's partly also pretty run-down, bureaucracy is a night-mare, etc.) Generally speaking, it's usually sunn…

Are Aegean islands cooler than Athens in summer?

You can take a cool dive in the sea in them. In Athens not so much. And in Athens you have the combined extra heat of all the concrete, cars, and air-conditioning units output to bear.

That said, it's still nothing like Phoenix or New Orleans. More like San Diego heat.

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#44

Post by jajko »

SwiftyBug wrote: post #32
bitcoinisback wrote: post #31

I lost any trust in that ranking after I saw Germany on place 4... Bureaucracy is extreme and some things that you could do in hours in other countries may take months or even years in Germany. Average tax rate is also second-highest among all OECD countries. Energy prices are extremely high (3x higher than in the US) and labour costs are high. There are also many other problems with Germany if you want to do busines…

Labour costs are high is a bad thing? I see it as social cohesion, where people get paid less unfairly.

Not sure if you are serious with your comment but I'll bite - when you start a company, after going through all the hell of starting it and making it profitable (which is often multiyear draining effort which destroys families and health easily, risk of losing literally everything is very real), you want to give all those money to other people, who put just their expected 40h effort with maximum salary security, 5-6 weeks of paid holidays etc.

This mindset is pervasive in Europe, and reason we are so much behind compared where we could be. Which can be fine, focus more on social aspect if thats your priority, but then good old greed kicks in and everybody wants those sweet money and benefits they bring, without necessary risks and downsides.

World doesn't work that way and never will, its simple math at the core.

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#45

Post by gndk »

vram22 wrote: post #35
hnhg wrote: post #17

I am surprised to see Germany so high. Germany is a hostile place to start a company, especially if you are not German, not least because there is the issue of a very harsh and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of around 30% of the current valuation of your worldwide holdings in companies. The rules for this became even harsher in 2021. I have obvi…

What's the reason for this?

It was initially introduced by the Nazis and mainly used to seize assets from jews before they were rounded up for the holocaust. So today, smart entrepreneurs do what smart jews did in the 1930s - leave Germany (and the EU), before it's too late. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reich_Flight_Tax

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#46

Post by yorwba »

hnhg wrote: post #17

I am surprised to see Germany so high. Germany is a hostile place to start a company, especially if you are not German, not least because there is the issue of a very harsh and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of around 30% of the current valuation of your worldwide holdings in companies. The rules for this became even harsher in 2021. I have obvi…

It's probably generally a bad idea to start a company in a country you intend to leave permanently. What's the point of having a company in Germany if you're not in Germany yourself?

Most companies in Germany are probably started by people who intend to stay, or are subsidiaries of international conglomerates, or have not gained enough in value to cause a significant tax burden, so the edge cases affected by the exit tax are unlikely to move the needle on business-friendliness indices like this one. (Especially in comparison to other countries with similar laws.)

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#47

Post by coldtea »

Looks more like a ranking of "what neoliberals reforms have been made to make the place a hellscape for workers" than actual "improving business environments" if the latter means more jobs, an actually improved economy, less desperation, and so on.

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#48

Post by algo_trader »

BillyTheKing wrote: post #5

I'm half Greek, so obviously a little bias. But would love to see a more thriving tech scene in Athens. It's a cool city, with great night-life, great restaurants, and stunning places nearby, not yet super gentrified and obviously also has some archaeological sites. But it's not just 2000 years old history (yes, it's partly also pretty run-down, bureaucracy is a night-mare, etc.) Generally speaking, it's usually sunn…

Do you have thoughts on Patras as a less crowded alternative for English-speaking nomads and setting up a remote office?

I guess the weather is also sunny and beachy ?

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#49

Post by yorwba »

rwmj wrote: post #42
hnhg wrote: post #17

I am surprised to see Germany so high. Germany is a hostile place to start a company, especially if you are not German, not least because there is the issue of a very harsh and inflexible exit tax. Should you decide to leave Germany, even temporarily, you will be faced with a tax of around 30% of the current valuation of your worldwide holdings in companies. The rules for this became even harsher in 2021. I have obvi…

I wonder why the EU hasn't clamped down on it? Surely it is incompatible with the Internal Market (unless by "leaving Germany" you meant "leaving the EU").

It's essentially an advance payment of capital gains tax before you have realized those gains (fictionally treating it as a sale from yourself in Germany to yourself abroad). If you just sold off the company outright, you'd have to pay the same tax, but then you'd also definitely have the money to do so.

Re: Greece, Argentina and India are the fastest improving business environments

#50

Post by jvmboi »

SwiftyBug wrote: post #32
bitcoinisback wrote: post #31

I lost any trust in that ranking after I saw Germany on place 4... Bureaucracy is extreme and some things that you could do in hours in other countries may take months or even years in Germany. Average tax rate is also second-highest among all OECD countries. Energy prices are extremely high (3x higher than in the US) and labour costs are high. There are also many other problems with Germany if you want to do busines…

Labour costs are high is a bad thing? I see it as social cohesion, where people get paid less unfairly.

You are entitled to your view but I think it is a little unempathetic to be unable or unwilling to put yourself in the shoes of entrepreneurs when the topic is how attractive a place is for them. Of course, all things being equal, a business wants to pay as little for labor as possible.

Speaking as a German, wrt pay I think this topic is not quite so simple. Germany doesn't have particularly high wages and one of the reasons for that is that labor costs are so high. How can that be? Simple: all labor protection that we have is, at end, simply a cost. Yes, we have payed sick leave. Very civilized. But German employees call out sick, on average, 11 days a years. That's almost two weeks pay for no labor. In a global, competitive labor market that cost isn't coming out of the profits of the company. It's coming out of our wages. And so it is with all the other "goodies" that we get.

Btw, our cohesion isn't really what it used to be either.

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