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Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

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Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#41

Post by ta988 »

pavlov wrote: post #19
vasco wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google was too innovative and successful to use external consultants and so the consultants joined the company as employees and did it from the inside!

Google today feels like Nokia of the mid-2000s. Victim of its own massive success, taken over by internal politics and divisions. Employs lots of smart people who figured out key ideas for next-gen tech early, but the organization is unable to take any of those innovations to market. And so it’s just stuck milking its cash cow. Google’s AI strategy is as clear as Nokia’s smartphone software strategy was.

They took some of the best brains, spoiled them with high salaries and glory and took their best years to make them work on dumb problems and projects that were cancelled at various stages of their life.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#42

Post by chuckadams »

usui wrote: post #15
ecmascript wrote: post #10

I hate Angular with a passion. It's easily the most verbose, overly complex front end framework I've ever used which just takes the fun out of building web apps and make it a pure pain. I would rather work on a farm and shovel pig shit all day than work in Angular again. My last job forced Angular on me, I quit after a while (not because of solely that reason) but I told them Angular was a bad choice and they chose t…

I seldom see this opinion but I'm glad to read it. People complain about JSX on the React side but what on Earth am I reading when I see the templating language that Angular came up with? ngIf, ngBlah. Much worse than JSX, which is subordinate to JavaScript code, not equal. I also have been forced to use Angular at the workplace and it killed any fun making web apps had. People say Angular is great for enterprise bec…

The template syntax of Angular isn't the problem most people have with it. It's the boilerplate, the forced OOP paradigm, having to work with observables even when they're not appropriate (thus having to understand "hot" vs "cold" observables), and up until recently, having to scatter each component across three different files. And to top it off, when the lack of expressivity is touted as a feature for taming complexity, that points to a development culture that doesn't sit well with me either.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#43

Post by esprehn »

easton wrote: post #5

For people who didn't know: Wiz is apparently a internal framework that Google uses for their apps that wasn't ever open sourced (at least, not completely, based on a quick search). At least they'll be dogfooding Angular now hopefully.

Google uses Angular quite a lot already. Pretty much all internal tools (bug tracker, code review, release tooling etc) is built with it. There's also a number of public facing apps like GCP Cloud Console and the Gemini web app.

Wiz has historically favored performance over ergonomics in the extreme. None of it is open source, and to be honest even if it was it's unlikely most people would want to use the mix of Java+Soy+JS+jQuery-ish API.

Interestingly both frameworks are around the same age (if you count Angular 1.0), but Wiz was kept internal.

What Sarah is referring to is both a big shift in Wiz to get modern ergonomics and a shift in the framework strategy to avoid having two entirely separate frameworks.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#44

Post by mattlondon »

ecmascript wrote: post #10

I hate Angular with a passion. It's easily the most verbose, overly complex front end framework I've ever used which just takes the fun out of building web apps and make it a pure pain. I would rather work on a farm and shovel pig shit all day than work in Angular again. My last job forced Angular on me, I quit after a while (not because of solely that reason) but I told them Angular was a bad choice and they chose t…

I suspect the migration effort will be fairly minimal. We recently migrated a bunch of stuff in a large codebase to use signals instead of observables and it was very straightforward. Couple of days for a junior engineer levels of straightforward.

I personally find Angular to be fine - sure there is a learning curve but that is true of anything (it's not like you can just pickup modern react and make anything functional without having to know how react works and spend ages picking libraries and installing and learning how to use npm, spending 6 months in a sanatorium getting therapy after realising you have to use npm for react and accept the shit show dumpster fire you are letting yourself in for by relying on npm, and deciding if you should use hooks or not and what about JS vs TS etc etc ). I find JSX in React an uncomfortable compromise that throws out a bunch of hard-learnt best practice in computer science (mixing up and confusing presentation with business logic in the same file). Separation of concerns is a good thing.

Angular will continue to be a solid choice for large professional outfits that care about things like maintainability, repeatable builds, dependency management, readability etc etc. Having Angular be the framework that powers websites like google.com and YouTube is just going to make it even more of a "no-brainer" choice than it already is if people are picking a web UI framework.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#45

Post by Workaccount2 »

ts330 wrote: post #3

Exciting? Possibly for those involved. I hate to say this, as I'm generally optimistic towards most developments like this, but over the last decade I've become so apathetic towards anything and everything from Google. They've lost so much mindshare and credibility. Their org structure leads to stagnation left, right and centre. I'd rather tolerate the poor status quo in React land than take any sort of bet on Google…

Everyday that Sundar is still CEO leaves me more and more bewildered. I cannot figure out how Brin and Page (who together own voting majority) look at google of 2024 and say "Yup, this is what we want Google to be".

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#47

Post by lgleason »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #45
ts330 wrote: post #3

Exciting? Possibly for those involved. I hate to say this, as I'm generally optimistic towards most developments like this, but over the last decade I've become so apathetic towards anything and everything from Google. They've lost so much mindshare and credibility. Their org structure leads to stagnation left, right and centre. I'd rather tolerate the poor status quo in React land than take any sort of bet on Google…

Everyday that Sundar is still CEO leaves me more and more bewildered. I cannot figure out how Brin and Page (who together own voting majority) look at google of 2024 and say "Yup, this is what we want Google to be".

They have essentially retired and are just enjoying the money they made from it.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#48

Post by kardianos »

bheadmaster wrote: post #37
ts330 wrote: post #3

Exciting? Possibly for those involved. I hate to say this, as I'm generally optimistic towards most developments like this, but over the last decade I've become so apathetic towards anything and everything from Google. They've lost so much mindshare and credibility. Their org structure leads to stagnation left, right and centre. I'd rather tolerate the poor status quo in React land than take any sort of bet on Google…

Golang is one of the Google products that I consider revolutionary in programming. But then again, it may just be because they employed the rockstars (Rob Pike, Ken Thomson, and Robert Griesemer) to work on it. I suppose it's less about the company, and more about who the company chooses to work on the project.

Exactly, but the Go team appears to have the exact opposite mindset as Google product managers. They care about maintaining a product and compatibility, without major API revisions. They appear to care about first principle engineering, not "let's make a new product!".

Okay, watching this video, and they just infantized their audience "if someone makes you uncomfortable, come find a staff" as if the conference goers aren't adults. That makes me really uncomfortable that they think adults can't handle themselves and work things out.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#49

Post by danpalmer »

throwaway290 wrote: post #14
easton wrote: post #5

For people who didn't know: Wiz is apparently a internal framework that Google uses for their apps that wasn't ever open sourced (at least, not completely, based on a quick search). At least they'll be dogfooding Angular now hopefully.

I thought some teams at Google were dogfooding Angular for many years now?

Basically all web frontends I've seen here are either Angular or Wiz, depending on latency requirements, or they're some legacy technology that is being moved to Angular or Wiz.

Re: Google: Angular and Wiz Are Merging

#50

Post by miiiiiike »

For years I’ve been saying “Angular is the wrong choice now but it will be the right one someday…” I didn’t think it would take 5 years to get there.

The Angular team has been doing incredible work lately.

The only thing that I still don’t like about Angular is trying to learn anything from the reference docs.

Have a reasonable developer tell me what a component viewProvider is and how it’s different from a provider using the @Component docs. It’s impossible. https://angular.io/api/core/Component#viewProviders

Whatever committee decided to silo the Angular reference docs from the usage docs has caused more harm than most of the hyperbolic non-examples I can come up with.

If you’re writing docs, please, please do me a favor and study the structure of the Django and Python docs.

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