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Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

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41–50 of 662 posts

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#41

The funny thing about legislation is that you're responsible for the unintended consequences of your laws too.

Yes and no? To some extent, sure. As an example: But if companies or people went out of their way to comply with a law that is clearly not complying with the spirit of the law, just the letter of it, are you really responsible for that? Or are they because they're doing everything to not comply?

Let's say you make a law to reduce working hours from 40 to 37 hours except in "emergency situations". Now a company will force employees to sign off on "emergency situations" every week or they'll be fired. They're clearly not complying to the spirit of the law? Is it really your fault when you make a law like that? I'd say only to some degree, the people trying to abuse every loop hole are much more responsible in this case.

Companies using dark patterns, hiding the "reject all" option behind an additional click (which even is illegal) and even trying to collect all data possible are much more responsible than the EU's law. Oftentimes they are collecting data just because, not even thinking about it, because they'll add GA to their WordPress site without even looking at it or whatever. That cookie banners have become the standard around the web is sad because it just shows how much everyone is trying to track you.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#42

Note that this isn't a cookie law, it's also the EU's main anti-malware law. The principle is that no piece of third-party controlled software should write information to your computer/phone, or read info from it, over the Internet, without your prior informed consent (with narrow exceptions for storage/reads that are needed to provide a service you've asked for, or equally narrow functions like load balancing). This…

did they try to make it a standard for browser? I tried searching but I couldn't find anything

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#43
Yes there is. More specifically, it’s the Privacy and Electronic Communications Directive 2002/58/EC, which each member state adjusts their own laws to follow. It’s published here:

https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

The relevant part:

> Article 5

> Confidentiality of the communications

> 3. Member States shall ensure that the storing of information, or the gaining of access to information already stored, in the terminal equipment of a subscriber or user is only allowed on condition that the subscriber or user concerned has given his or her consent, having been provided with clear and comprehensive information, in accordance with Directive 95/46/EC, inter alia, about the purposes of the processing. This shall not prevent any technical storage or access for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network, or as strictly necessary in order for the provider of an information society service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user to provide the service.

If you want to argue that companies have a legal alternative to showing you cookie banners, then by all means do so. But don’t say there’s no law because there clearly is. This is a misleading and inflammatory headline.

Edit: Yes, I read the article. To draw a distinction between “must obtain consent” and “must show UI that obtains consent” is of no value unless you want to write an article with a shocking headline.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#44
post #18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your business is "doing sketchy shit with people's data", and the regulatory hammer just came down on you... well, yeah.

Come on, this is such a ridiculous take. Adding google adsense to a website needs a cookie bar. That’t not "doing sketchy shit with people's data" I can’t believe how many people have bought into this EU regulation hook line and sinker. It’s ridiculous, imagine the man hours that have been wasted in the last 7 years just clicking cookie bars. And as OP says, it’s completely unrealistic to not have them.

That is absolutely “doing sketchy shit with people’s data”.

So you need to tell people you are doing that, so they can consent.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#45
post #39
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case, it is just showing that most companies are collecting more data than they need. You don’t need a banner for the data that is necessary for the service to work at minimum level. There is no role for the consent since the site won’t work otherwise.

It also shows that most people don't care and just want to get on with their day. We know that companies are collecting more data. Now what?

How does it show that? Most people I know are annoyed by this and click on "reject" (if they can find it), but for a lot of non-technical people these banners are just a given because they don't even understand the problem. Doesn't mean they don't care

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#46
post #18
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your business is "doing sketchy shit with people's data", and the regulatory hammer just came down on you... well, yeah.

Come on, this is such a ridiculous take. Adding google adsense to a website needs a cookie bar. That’t not "doing sketchy shit with people's data" I can’t believe how many people have bought into this EU regulation hook line and sinker. It’s ridiculous, imagine the man hours that have been wasted in the last 7 years just clicking cookie bars. And as OP says, it’s completely unrealistic to not have them.

Using anything Google on your website without asking for consent before loading it from Google, is in my definition quite sketchy. It may be either uninformed, no conscience, or not properly thinking about the ethics of ones choices, or whatever, but it is definitely not right and not ethical to do so. I am quite happy with regulations coming down on people and especially businesses, who continue to do this.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#47
To me, this seems like engagement clickbait targeting PG to promote an infotainment product (CTO coaching/course):

>there is no cookie banner law

There definitely is. The article explicitly states this:

>you need my consent when you want to track me

"tracking" here means storing data:

>store information in a visitor's browser is only allowed if the user is provided with "clear and comprehensive information", in accordance with the Data Protection Directive, about the purposes of the storage of, or access to, that information; and has given their consent (wikipedia)

The actual directive also explicitly states this

>consent may be given by any appropriate method enabling a freely given specific and informed indication of the user's wishes, including by ticking a box when visiting an Internet website (32002L0058.17)

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#48
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean the EU should have foreseen that people in tech have no conscience and sensitivity for right or wrong?

To be fair, completely foreseeable.

As a reminder, it's the same people in tech we're trusting to build things like chat bots, "AI", cars that try to drive themselves and rockets that try to land themselves... etc.

You have to admit that if these same people can't be trusted to follow a simple "do not track" directive, humanity is in big trouble.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#49

The funny thing about legislation is that you're responsible for the unintended consequences of your laws too.

I would expect that most companies would be ashamed to publicly state that they sell your data to hundreds(!) of data providers and they would fix this before they had to disclose it. But nope, apparently the money is too good. And blaming the government is more convenient.

Re: Dear Paul Graham, there is no cookie banner law

#50
post #27

Putting up a wall in the middle of a busy street and then getting upset when people find ways around it doesn't make sense. The solution is either to remove the wall or ensure it cannot be bypassed. Right now, it's just irritating for the average person and slightly inconveniencing those who actually break the rules. This is the same situation with the cookie banner regulations. If the goal is to eliminate tracking,…

Since this is around the 5th time this sentiment has been expressed in this thread, I have to ask... are cookie banners really so frustrating? Oh no, gotta click one, maybe 2, more buttons...
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