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Welcome To Life

tomscott.com

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Re: Welcome To Life

#41

Post by tejaswiy »

sodiumphosphate wrote: post #36

While it does make for some entertaining fiction, and may provide some benefits to the living, I do not believe that 'uploading' is a desirable experience. In fact, I don't believe that one can experience it at all. Imagine the procedure (for a conscious person): your brain is connected to a computer interface and a copy of your mind is taken. Great. Now there is a digital copy of your mind. So what? You still get to…

> Consciousness is mortally bound to the physical body, and will die along with it regardless of how many mental copies are made.

Why? Can you explain more? I would believe that you can be a fully functioning human living in a simulated reality if we ever managed to fully simulate the human brain..

However, since our brain modules are so messily coupled I don't know if we can easily "delete" memories and not impact anything else.

Re: Welcome To Life

#42

Post by JonnieCache »

jerf wrote: post #32
ilaksh wrote: post #27

Very entertaining and interesting concept. BUT.. are people really so pessimistic about technology and the future that the main thing that comes to mind when they think of digital immortality is.. this? Your virtual body can be anything you want. You can't die as long as your digital code is backed up somewhere. If you can't see the bright side of that stuff, there is some kind of psychological issue.

It has both effectively infinite possibility for goodness and infinite possibility for badness. Your virtual body can be anything you want... as long as you control the execution parameters . This is not guaranteed! What if $YOUR_LEAST_FAVORITE_COMPANY is the one in control? Or worse? Even the option of suicide can be removed from you. If Hell does not exist, there is a non-zero chance Man will make it for himself. I…

>Indeed, if things are just left alone I would not even say the default state is that you'll be in control of your own code. It will be a company that develops this technology first, since the alternative is inconceivable, and they will have their own agenda. There's a lot more possibilities that could emerge than just a happy utopia.

One might argue that these technologies are so advanced that they will not be developed until the current resource scarcities which govern our lives have been removed, and as such we wouldn't be subject to the same degrading economic pressures.

This makes some sense to me, but maybe I've just been watching too much Star Trek.

Re: Welcome To Life

#43

Post by satori99 »

jerf wrote: post #32
ilaksh wrote: post #27

Very entertaining and interesting concept. BUT.. are people really so pessimistic about technology and the future that the main thing that comes to mind when they think of digital immortality is.. this? Your virtual body can be anything you want. You can't die as long as your digital code is backed up somewhere. If you can't see the bright side of that stuff, there is some kind of psychological issue.

It has both effectively infinite possibility for goodness and infinite possibility for badness. Your virtual body can be anything you want... as long as you control the execution parameters . This is not guaranteed! What if $YOUR_LEAST_FAVORITE_COMPANY is the one in control? Or worse? Even the option of suicide can be removed from you. If Hell does not exist, there is a non-zero chance Man will make it for himself. I…

Iain M Banks most recent Culture novel, Surface Detail, dealt with the idea of Digital Heavens, and of course Digital Hell's. They are run by religious high technology civilizations.

A virtual hell is a nasty place where sinners are copied into post death, for eternity. Sometimes young sinners are given day trips there to straighten them out, before death.

He talk a little about it in this wired interview: http://www.wired.com/underwire/2010/10/iain-banks/all/1

Re: Welcome To Life

#44

Post by Rhapso »

sodiumphosphate wrote: post #36

While it does make for some entertaining fiction, and may provide some benefits to the living, I do not believe that 'uploading' is a desirable experience. In fact, I don't believe that one can experience it at all. Imagine the procedure (for a conscious person): your brain is connected to a computer interface and a copy of your mind is taken. Great. Now there is a digital copy of your mind. So what? You still get to…

this goes back to the ages old problem of, "In Star Trek, the transporter killed you every time" We have this almost social idea of Body Continuity. As long as there is the same body the entire time you are still you and still "alive". A scarier truth is that all it takes is a decent change to how you brain is structured (bullet, railroad spike, fork through the skull) and you can very suddenly for all intents and purposes be a different person, with the same or similar memories but essentially different patterns of behavior. Metamorphosis may not save you, it might kill the person you were just as if you made a copy and burned the original. Further down the rabbit hole, just how different is your brain now from and instant ago, and your brain versus your brain with the addition of a few ball bearings or other random matter. The person you were an instant ago is just as dead as the original who gets destroyed and you are the copy.

Re: Welcome To Life

#45

Post by dmbass »

ericb wrote: post #35

I'm not excited about this future. Whatever is uploaded isn't me, it is merely like me--a copy. Anything that is theoretically capable of running while I'm still alive is just a copy--it isn't me .

The "copy" becomes the "real" you because it has extended life. Both you and the "copy" consider yourselves to be the "real one" (or maybe you accept the coexistence), but you are going to die and the copies will live forever.

You think: "That copy isn't me, ericb!" * dies *

Copy thinks: "Great! I, ericb, just got a new lease on life!"

Re: Welcome To Life

#46

Post by [deleted] »

sodiumphosphate wrote: post #36

While it does make for some entertaining fiction, and may provide some benefits to the living, I do not believe that 'uploading' is a desirable experience. In fact, I don't believe that one can experience it at all. Imagine the procedure (for a conscious person): your brain is connected to a computer interface and a copy of your mind is taken. Great. Now there is a digital copy of your mind. So what? You still get to…

[deleted]

Re: Welcome To Life

#47

Post by indiecore »

tejaswiy wrote: post #41
sodiumphosphate wrote: post #36

While it does make for some entertaining fiction, and may provide some benefits to the living, I do not believe that 'uploading' is a desirable experience. In fact, I don't believe that one can experience it at all. Imagine the procedure (for a conscious person): your brain is connected to a computer interface and a copy of your mind is taken. Great. Now there is a digital copy of your mind. So what? You still get to…

> Consciousness is mortally bound to the physical body, and will die along with it regardless of how many mental copies are made. Why? Can you explain more? I would believe that you can be a fully functioning human living in a simulated reality if we ever managed to fully simulate the human brain.. However, since our brain modules are so messily coupled I don't know if we can easily "delete" memories and not impact a…

Unless you accept dualism (that there is some 'you' separate from the wetware in your head) you are always going to have this problem. A copy of 'you' would only sync with 'you' for an infinitesimal amount of time before you both diverged. The two 'yous' both have valid claim to everything before the Split but afterwards you are effectively two different people.

Re: Welcome To Life

#48

Post by sigkill »

sikhnerd wrote: post #6

It's tough not to immediately draw the many parallels to what we see happening in society right now and the scary part is that this is so easily conceivable as a realistic future. Well done!

Facebook has almost made everyone have a presence online. Google Glass will make sure we're always online.

Re: Welcome To Life

#49

Post by arethuza »

ericb wrote: post #35

I'm not excited about this future. Whatever is uploaded isn't me, it is merely like me--a copy. Anything that is theoretically capable of running while I'm still alive is just a copy--it isn't me .

How do you know that it's the same "you" that wakes up every morning that went to sleep the night before?

Re: Welcome To Life

#50

Post by maxerickson »

ericb wrote: post #37
sodiumphosphate wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm pessimistic about this type of technology because it isn't "you" that we are talking about; it's a copy of you ; you still get to die, and I don't think that knowing a copy of your mind exists will be of any real comfort.

Exactly . It baffles me that even very smart people can't see this bug. If it can theoretically exist separately while you are alive, it can't be you. For example, if You and Digital You (tm) were alive at the same time, I could put you in one room, and Digital You in another, and smash Digital You without You having any idea. You could live your whole life not knowing if Digital You was "alive." Whatever your defini…

In "Altered Carbon", a character that has lived for hundreds of years destroys an instance of his self in order to prevent the upload of a mind virus into a backup copy of his self. In doing so, he loses a few days of experience.

Is that situation utterly contrived because he destroyed his mind, or are you insisting on a limited definition of self?

(Let's set aside the part where there is mind replicating technology but no snapshots or version control)

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