Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

macrumors.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#41

Post by internetter »

procgen wrote: post #24
internetter wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU has always been enthusiastic about the spirit of the law, and Apple is not used to this. You can see their temper tantrum unfold every time they find this out.

Disregarding the letter of the law seems arbitrary and capricious.

Is it? Developers used to determinism in software frequently don't understand that in all jurisdictions the law is ultimately interpreted by humans. I've been going through some legal processes myself, and my friend who is a lawyer reminded me more times than I care to admit that this is the case.

In the US, SCOTUS's job is literally to interpret the spirit of the law in the event of ambiguity.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#42

Post by bossyTeacher »

lapcat wrote: post #3

This is just more malicious compliance by Apple. Indie developers are completely locked out of web distribution, and it applies only to developers who are already paying the Apple tax. > To be eligible for Web Distribution, you must: > Be a member of good standing in the Apple Developer Program for two continuous years or more, and have an app that had more than one million first annual installs on iOS in the EU in t…

If indie developers were to quality, anyone would qualify and security incidents would inevitably increase. That's what Apple is trying to prevent. Keep the attack surface small.

Apple's philosophy is similar to the justice philosophy of nations like Singapore. Freedom in exchange for security. Some people like the trade off and some don't. And if there is anything that we know for sure is that when it comes to tech, freedom is the last of people's priorities.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#43

Post by CubsFan1060 »

lapcat wrote: post #11
CubsFan1060 wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The core technology fee doesn't exist on the Mac.

How is taking 15% or 30% of all revenue better than €0.50 per first annual install?

If your app is ad-supported, you pay 0%. It also makes the freemium model viable. If you have an application that has in-app purchases, then people may download, play the free portion, and never pay you. If you have to pay $0.50 for that, then it may not go well.

The 0.50 is probably much better if you're selling, say, a $10 app.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#44

Post by frankjr »

From https://developer.apple.com/support/core-technology-fee/

> First annual install. This is the first time an app is installed by an account in the EU in a 12-month period. After each first annual install, the app may be installed any number of times by the same account for the next 12 months with no additional charge.

Okay...

> A first annual install may result from an app’s first-time install, a reinstall, or an update from any iOS app distribution option — including the App Store, an alternative app marketplace, TestFlight, an App Clip, volume purchases through Apple Business Manager and Apple School Manager, and/or a custom app.

Do I understand this correctly that you will have to pay the fee for each user (above the 1 million free) even if they just get an automatic update? Given that updates are automatic by default, you will end up paying even for inactive users (users who installed the app but long forgotten about it and don't use it).

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#45

Post by sneak »

klaustopher wrote: post #13

I am really impressed how much time and effort Apples legal department spends to find every single loop hole in the wording of the DMA. The 50ct per install for alternate app stores, 50ct per install for non-App Store apps after the millionth install, 1 million dollar in securities for alternate app stores, etc all follow the words of the DMA, but not the spirit. I am really interested to see the European Commissian…

Complying with what you guess at the lawmakers' intentions was/were is a fool's errand. The law is the text, nothing more, nothing less. That's the point of the law. If the law falls short or has loopholes, it's a bad law and it's the legislature's job to fix it, not citizens' to suss it out.

To assume the law means things that aren't written in the law is, quite basically, undemocratic.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#46

Post by jimbokun »

sneak wrote: post #33
Spivak wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which part? I don't think the EU can rule that Apple can't charge publishers to be on iOS. This isn't malicious compliance, sans the size requirement it's exactly what they asked for. This keeps happening where people keep hitching "I don't want to pay Apple" to every wagon except a law that requires Apple to make access to iOS free. "Allow other payment processors": Okay you still pay 27% "Allow other stores": Okay…

Since when do you have to pay to use an ABI or link against system libraries? Shipping your own apps to your own customers doesn't entitle Apple to a payment.

Is that a legal opinion, or a this is how the world should work opinion?

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#47

Post by resource_waste »

Oh man Apple is finally getting a feature Android had for 10+ years! Maybe in like 20 years iphones will finally have the features a $100 android has and will be up to bare basic standards.

I def look sideways at people who buy a used $300 iphone when you can get a safer, higher quality, more feature phone with more for $150. This is different from someone buying Nike Jordans because they are status insecure, because Nike Jordan's dont affect my life. A critical mass of Apple users caused developers to make Apps for iPhones.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#49

Post by klaustopher »

sneak wrote: post #45
klaustopher wrote: post #13

I am really impressed how much time and effort Apples legal department spends to find every single loop hole in the wording of the DMA. The 50ct per install for alternate app stores, 50ct per install for non-App Store apps after the millionth install, 1 million dollar in securities for alternate app stores, etc all follow the words of the DMA, but not the spirit. I am really interested to see the European Commissian…

Complying with what you guess at the lawmakers' intentions was/were is a fool's errand. The law is the text, nothing more, nothing less. That's the point of the law. If the law falls short or has loopholes, it's a bad law and it's the legislature's job to fix it, not citizens' to suss it out. To assume the law means things that aren't written in the law is, quite basically, undemocratic.

Written it in another comment. If there are ambiguities in the written law, for example because the legislature did not specify in the text of the law, that you can't charge for the access to the platforms, high courts like the CJEU will take approaches where they determine the spirit of the law (i.e. by looking at the discussion material the legislature presented for passing the law) to find out what the intent of the legislature was and then defines this law.

This is for example how Germany now has a basic right to data protection. It's not written in the constitution, it was formed by our supereme court by looking at what the intentions of the author's of our constitution were. Same principle applies to EU laws.

I agree that this is not a citizen's job. That's why I wrote that I am very happy to see the EU commission drag Apple in front of the CJEU.

Re: Apple announces ability to download apps directly from websites in EU

#50

Post by isodev »

internetter wrote: post #16
klaustopher wrote: post #13

I am really impressed how much time and effort Apples legal department spends to find every single loop hole in the wording of the DMA. The 50ct per install for alternate app stores, 50ct per install for non-App Store apps after the millionth install, 1 million dollar in securities for alternate app stores, etc all follow the words of the DMA, but not the spirit. I am really interested to see the European Commissian…

The EU has always been enthusiastic about the spirit of the law, and Apple is not used to this. You can see their temper tantrum unfold every time they find this out.

I’m so tired of this, instead of doing the right thing, Apple just keeps trying to brute force the legal framework. You don’t need fancy legal team to know this is not the way.
Post reply on HN