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Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

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Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#41

Post by dgellow »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

To add to this, Apple is seen as a foreign company trying to cheat with local regulators

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#42

Post by toenail »

redwood wrote: post #15

I understand where the author is coming from and It is important to have a realist perspective on what is driving European strategy or else we will be in denial. I think it's also important to recognize that the west are interconnected in many real ways beyond economic. The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella which allows the EU to invest on other things instead of defense. Another…

> The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella

Defense has to be believable, a 50/50 bet that treaties will be honored in the future isn't. All that debt fueled spending doesn't mean a lot.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#43

Post by throwaway473825 »

dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

>EU citizens haven't been brainwashed into thinking that their government is their enemy, at least not to the same extent as the US.

The same phenomenon can be seen in other areas, such as digital cash:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=Dpu6G_UlSdM

On paper, digital cash is superior to both physical cash and digital bank money in almost all aspects, but many Americans oppose it anyway because they see their government as their enemy.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#44

Post by pydry »

mjburgess wrote: post #24
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

It does seem they've mistaken the general sentiment towards government regulation in europe, which is typically, "more, better". Since we have so many consumer protections, much of how we end up engaging with the law around business practices is to our benefit . We're always aware we can raise bad business practices with an ombudsman (etc.). So our lived experience of government regulation is, in large part, positive…

>It does seem they've mistaken the general sentiment towards government regulation in europe, which is typically, "more, better".

The notion of regulation as being on a sliding scale where "more is worse" was a manufactured American meme created by the Kochs in the 1980s. It emerged from some of their epic fights with the environmental protection agency and their subsequent lobbying and public relations outreach efforts that followed. They set up and funded number of institutions dedicated to telling this story (and others, including that one about hairdresser licensing). The Heritage Foundation, the American Enterprise Institute, and the Cato Institute to name a few.

If you think about it for a few seconds, dumbing down a complex system like laws or regulation to "more vs less" is quite stupid. It's like saying that some programmers believe in "more lines of code" and some believe in "fewer". Do you want more laws or fewer laws? The question doesn't make sense. You want the right kind of laws, right? Ones that are as simple as possible and no simpler. The same for code.

I think it's important to put this type of thing in a historical context though. These ideas and stories don't emerge out of nowhere - there is usually money behind them. In this case, it was money from an oil and chemicals company that had a singular goal - to fight the EPA - so it could destroy the natural environment in America with absolute impunity.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#45

Post by mst »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #20

Are there any counterexamples to what the author presents as the inevitability of European open market regulations? > And we certainly don’t want more Elon Musks in the world. Boy, wouldn't it be horrible if we got more Tesla's, SpaceX's, Starlink's, and freedom of speech on social media in the world!

SpaceX is awesome and I'm glad we have -one- Elon Musk but I'm not convinced we need more than that.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#46

Post by Lutger »

drooopy wrote: post #26
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

Despite the rise of far right populist parties, Europe tends to lean more on the left side of the political spectrum compared to America, and corporate worship is a relatively new thing over here. People tend to have more faith in governments and treat companies with more distrust, compared to the US which seems to be the other way around.

For some definition of left.

The interesting thing about the article is that all this EU regulatory control over corporations is in fact deeply capitalistic and the very reason for its existence, and in the corporations interest. Which is not what most EU citizens would consider being on the left of the political spectrum.

The idea is: we need regulation to shape the market where businesses can compete freely to the advantage of both businesses and consumers. If we don't regulate, monopolistic corporation would threaten the single EU market.

Or even more simplified: we need rules to have a free market. The US version (or one of the versions) of capitalism is more of a free-for-all, where the most important thing is to reduce regulation, not increase it. It seems to trust the judicial system more than the government.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#47

Post by Mashimo »

oatmeal1 wrote: post #20

Are there any counterexamples to what the author presents as the inevitability of European open market regulations? > And we certainly don’t want more Elon Musks in the world. Boy, wouldn't it be horrible if we got more Tesla's, SpaceX's, Starlink's, and freedom of speech on social media in the world!

> freedom of speech on social media in the world!

Did that get better?

I though twitter fired a lot of lawyers who held up freedom of speech and now the company is folding against governments like Turkey. But I have mostly only read headlines. Would love to read more about it.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#48

Post by paulsutter »

mjburgess wrote: post #24
dkjaudyeqooe wrote: post #10

What amazes and perplexes me is that Apple thinks it can effectively play politics against the EU and that somehow their customers will back them in the face of the "consequences" Apple applies, which are pretty transparent and really quite amateurish (eg no more web apps for you!). As the article states, the first mistake Apple makes is thinking the EU is somehow like the US, but I can't see how any large proportion…

It does seem they've mistaken the general sentiment towards government regulation in europe, which is typically, "more, better". Since we have so many consumer protections, much of how we end up engaging with the law around business practices is to our benefit . We're always aware we can raise bad business practices with an ombudsman (etc.). So our lived experience of government regulation is, in large part, positive…

Yes each time we see these cookie warnings, we admire a system that does so much to our benefit

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#49

Post by lapcat »

redwood wrote: post #15

I understand where the author is coming from and It is important to have a realist perspective on what is driving European strategy or else we will be in denial. I think it's also important to recognize that the west are interconnected in many real ways beyond economic. The first and most clearly top of mind recently is the US defense umbrella which allows the EU to invest on other things instead of defense. Another…

> Another less talked about is how the US subsidizes most of global R&D for healthcare by virtue of the obscene amount Americans pay and hence make profitable that industry to the benefit of all of humanity.

As an American who pays for healthcare insurance, I must say that this is a bug and not a feature!

> there's a reason why European employees are typically paid far less

American companies also want to pay American employees less who switch from working in the office to working remotely.

Re: Facing reality about the EU is a core requirement for good management

#50

Post by ltbarcly3 »

Mashimo wrote: post #39
ltbarcly3 wrote: post #23

This reads like a 10th graders report, just repeating arguments found on the internet. The criticism of forcing apple to abandon a superior connector for phones to standardize charger cords, while every other building you go into in Europe has a different outlet that is incompatible with the charger you want to plug in is perfectly reasonable. The idea that there is some great benefit to making sure there is only one…

Gosh damn you Denmark! You where super late to the party and then choose to be special :( https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1545/5143/files/Plugs_of_t... That really grinds my gears. But I think the narrow 2 pin plug can be used in most EU countries. --------- >The fact that the EU regulators can arbitrarily go after companies is a real problem. Do they go arbitrarily after companies though?

At least all the phones will use the mechanically defective USB-C connector though. Huge win for labor unions and internal market?
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